4 ms·

Fuller's chief skill was always self-promotion. It was good to get some important ideas into circulation, but they are not better for having his name attached.

by ncmncm 4y ago

Fuller's chief skill was always self-promotion. It was good to get some important ideas into circulation, but they are not better for having his name attached. Geodesic domes, after all, turned out to be far less important than he insisted, and his "dymaxion" car was a hazard at best. I am completely satisfied to give Snelson credit for what he has brought to our attention.

Jarmsy 4y ago
Also - the first geodesic domes were designed by Walther Bauersfeld over 2 decades before Fuller. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dome_Jena_UnderConstruction.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dome_Jena_UnderConst...
JackFr 4y ago
The more I learn of him, the less able Fuller seems. I kind of suspected before, but this letter and the Dymaxion car article last week seem to confirm that he was not an engineer or inventor, scarcely an architect and was more a promoter than anything. (I suppose promoters can always call themselves visionaries.)
- moomin 4y ago
  Met Mandelbrot once. Same energy.
  - prionassembly 4y ago
    Wolfram, Taleb,...
    - mistrial9 4y ago
      thx-not Bucky-cancellers, this is a bad day today, to read Wolfram name (met pompous blowhard in person) next to Bucky (grand visionary,before my time)
      - moomin 4y ago
        You know who was genuinely inspiring to meet in person? Chris Zeeman.
jacquesm 4y ago
I think with ideas the idea being 'out there in pieces' is what makes it happen. Look at the livestream concept, I pioneered it in 1995, I'm aware of one more guy who had the idea around the same time and I am pretty sure that if you dig deep enough and long enough that you'll find more. Video in a browser was going to happen, with or without me, I was just the first by at best a few months. After all a browser required networking and cameras connected to computers were just coming out around that time (mine came courtesy of SGI, which shipped with a weird little camera that helped pioneer the concept). The Dymaxion has a bad rep but for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the car or its design, and bringing that into the discussion is a bit weird: the safety of the Dymaxion has no bearing on whether or not Buckminster Fuller came up with the Tensegrity concept. What it does do though is to establish him as someone capable of independent thought. And as the edit above mentions, if we're going to assign credit properly for the Tensegrity concept it should go to Karlis Johansons instead of either Fuller or Snelson, and Fuller should be credited for naming it so.
causi 4y ago
Don't forget about his "don't bother trying to change people or society because technology will fix it" approach to every major problem, like climate change and environmental damage.
_yb2s 4y ago
I'm a big fan of Fuller after having read most of his books, and I feel like the recent critical posts about him on YC (including yours) are fundamentally misunderstanding him and what he was trying to do. He was a specific type of visionary- he imagined a very specific type of better future for humanity, and was working backwards from that vision. He had a very specific goal in life: to do the maximum possible to improve humanity's chances of getting into this better future, despite being only one person. He thought of himself, and his life as a "trimtab", a small thing that can steer a larger object by pushing in just the right way. His overarching goal was to make his life an example of how to do this, for others to follow. I think this philosophy of an individual's ability to make a big difference in the long term was his major contribution. From applying this, he identified and popularized many obscure concepts in geometry (e.g. geodesics, tensegrity) as potential avenues to building a sustainable future- where we could live better with less resources in the distant future. He wasn't the first person to think of these things, but he was the first to explain to people how these types of unusual ideas could be a key to building a better future for humanity. This is visionary leadership- a rare and valuable skill that isn't just self promotion. I would say it's still unclear as to if his ideas will eventually pan out, but if not, I think his type of thinking will inspire others to come up with ideas that will. Also, the Dymaxion car wasn't a flop at all in my view, it was a prototype that caused a massive shift in how people thought about vehicle design. the VW Bus/Transporter for example was heavily inspired by the Dymaxion car, which was one of the most successful vehicles in history, and further influenced all modern passenger vans. The combination of being aerodynamic, and forward control enabling usable interior space for the entire length of the vehicle with no hood meant you could move a lot of people, or carry a lot of stuff in a small vehicle with far less fuel than previously possible. Forward control is also really useful for safety and visibility in tight maneuvering, and offroad. Most purpose built offroad vehicles use forward control (pinzgauer, SHERP, unimog, etc.) I think there is a lot of desire to 'cancel' historical tech visionaries like Fuller nowadays, because we are all burned out, depressed, and disengaged- feeling that our efforts have no real effect, and are pointless. It's easier to say people like Fuller didn't really do much, than to admit that we are capable of so much more. Instead of thinking of him as a con-artist and self promoter, realize that his actions also fit someone that - well into his late 80s, still felt the joy, open mindedness, and limited possibilities that young kids feel, and is usually burned out of us. He was so excited about what was possible!
gshubert17 4y ago
A post here a week ago of a book review https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-making-of-a-prophet/ https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-making-of-a-prophet/ got no comments at that time, but caught my eye. It seems the author, Alec Nevala-Lee, of the biography _Inventor of the Future_ about Buckminster Fuller, would agree with you. The reviewer, Pradeep Niroula, concluded: Buckminster Fuller’s life is a reminder of two truths: to succeed in America, it really helps to come from a well-connected family; and, with the right marketing, anyone can become an icon. His illustrious life is testament to the influence a single con artist can have over a zeitgeist.

by ncmncm 4y ago

Jarmsy 4y ago

Also - the first geodesic domes were designed by Walther Bauersfeld over 2 decades before Fuller. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dome_Jena_UnderConstruction.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dome_Jena_UnderConst...

JackFr 4y ago

The more I learn of him, the less able Fuller seems. I kind of suspected before, but this letter and the Dymaxion car article last week seem to confirm that he was not an engineer or inventor, scarcely an architect and was more a promoter than anything. (I suppose promoters can always call themselves visionaries.)

moomin 4y ago
Met Mandelbrot once. Same energy.
- prionassembly 4y ago
  Wolfram, Taleb,...
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    thx-not Bucky-cancellers, this is a bad day today, to read Wolfram name (met pompous blowhard in person) next to Bucky (grand visionary,before my time)
    - moomin 4y ago
      You know who was genuinely inspiring to meet in person? Chris Zeeman.

jacquesm 4y ago

I think with ideas the idea being 'out there in pieces' is what makes it happen. Look at the livestream concept, I pioneered it in 1995, I'm aware of one more guy who had the idea around the same time and I am pretty sure that if you dig deep enough and long enough that you'll find more. Video in a browser was going to happen, with or without me, I was just the first by at best a few months. After all a browser required networking and cameras connected to computers were just coming out around that time (mine came courtesy of SGI, which shipped with a weird little camera that helped pioneer the concept). The Dymaxion has a bad rep but for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the car or its design, and bringing that into the discussion is a bit weird: the safety of the Dymaxion has no bearing on whether or not Buckminster Fuller came up with the Tensegrity concept. What it does do though is to establish him as someone capable of independent thought. And as the edit above mentions, if we're going to assign credit properly for the Tensegrity concept it should go to Karlis Johansons instead of either Fuller or Snelson, and Fuller should be credited for naming it so.

causi 4y ago

Don't forget about his "don't bother trying to change people or society because technology will fix it" approach to every major problem, like climate change and environmental damage.

_yb2s 4y ago

I'm a big fan of Fuller after having read most of his books, and I feel like the recent critical posts about him on YC (including yours) are fundamentally misunderstanding him and what he was trying to do. He was a specific type of visionary- he imagined a very specific type of better future for humanity, and was working backwards from that vision. He had a very specific goal in life: to do the maximum possible to improve humanity's chances of getting into this better future, despite being only one person. He thought of himself, and his life as a "trimtab", a small thing that can steer a larger object by pushing in just the right way. His overarching goal was to make his life an example of how to do this, for others to follow. I think this philosophy of an individual's ability to make a big difference in the long term was his major contribution. From applying this, he identified and popularized many obscure concepts in geometry (e.g. geodesics, tensegrity) as potential avenues to building a sustainable future- where we could live better with less resources in the distant future. He wasn't the first person to think of these things, but he was the first to explain to people how these types of unusual ideas could be a key to building a better future for humanity. This is visionary leadership- a rare and valuable skill that isn't just self promotion. I would say it's still unclear as to if his ideas will eventually pan out, but if not, I think his type of thinking will inspire others to come up with ideas that will. Also, the Dymaxion car wasn't a flop at all in my view, it was a prototype that caused a massive shift in how people thought about vehicle design. the VW Bus/Transporter for example was heavily inspired by the Dymaxion car, which was one of the most successful vehicles in history, and further influenced all modern passenger vans. The combination of being aerodynamic, and forward control enabling usable interior space for the entire length of the vehicle with no hood meant you could move a lot of people, or carry a lot of stuff in a small vehicle with far less fuel than previously possible. Forward control is also really useful for safety and visibility in tight maneuvering, and offroad. Most purpose built offroad vehicles use forward control (pinzgauer, SHERP, unimog, etc.) I think there is a lot of desire to 'cancel' historical tech visionaries like Fuller nowadays, because we are all burned out, depressed, and disengaged- feeling that our efforts have no real effect, and are pointless. It's easier to say people like Fuller didn't really do much, than to admit that we are capable of so much more. Instead of thinking of him as a con-artist and self promoter, realize that his actions also fit someone that - well into his late 80s, still felt the joy, open mindedness, and limited possibilities that young kids feel, and is usually burned out of us. He was so excited about what was possible!

gshubert17 4y ago

A post here a week ago of a book review https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-making-of-a-prophet/ https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-making-of-a-prophet/ got no comments at that time, but caught my eye. It seems the author, Alec Nevala-Lee, of the biography _Inventor of the Future_ about Buckminster Fuller, would agree with you. The reviewer, Pradeep Niroula, concluded: Buckminster Fuller’s life is a reminder of two truths: to succeed in America, it really helps to come from a well-connected family; and, with the right marketing, anyone can become an icon. His illustrious life is testament to the influence a single con artist can have over a zeitgeist.