4 ms·

You should realize that Ukraine is an upcoming democracy, but it isn't one ( yet) due to corruption, but this could change relatively fast considering the actio

You should realize that Ukraine is an upcoming democracy, but it isn't one ( yet) due to corruption, but this could change relatively fast considering the actions Zelensky took ( if they are not for corruption ofc). The split with USSR is very recent ( 1991). But they are earning their place in NATO with blood. The only problem is if we get another Poland/Hungary/Turkeye that tries to control it's democracy ( for in EU)

herewulf 4y ago
> earning their place in NATO And what exactly of strategic value does Ukraine have to offer NATO?
- NicoJuicy 4y ago
  Look at what's happening now.
- hakfoo 4y ago
  This right there. NATO, in its original context, was largely obsolete after 1991. The threat that it was engineered to defend against was gone. The day the tricolour went up over Moscow, we should have started drafting a post-NATO organization which explicitly included Russia (and the more stable/functional/too-armed-too-ignore post-Soviet states) as equal partners. This would have been important both geopolitically and psychologically. The message should have been clear: we are now on the same team. If someone joins our bloc, we both win. Let's focus on the threats we face (i. e. perpetual Middle East instability, or retiring the Soviet weapons that ended up in unstable hands) together. Then you don't have 30 years of every NATO and EU expansion being easily interpreted as a dismantling of the historic Russian/Soviet sphere of influence.
  - NicoJuicy 4y ago
    NATO doesn't allow members quickly. There were joint NATOmissions with Russia, but Putin didn't like that US intervened in Iraq ( in it's sphere of influence). Since then the relation degraded. There's an extensive report of military interventions the last 30 years of Russia. You should read it ;)

4 ms·

You should realize that Ukraine is an upcoming democracy, but it isn't one ( yet) due to corruption, but this could change relatively fast considering the actio

by NicoJuicy 4y ago

herewulf 4y ago
> earning their place in NATO And what exactly of strategic value does Ukraine have to offer NATO?
- NicoJuicy 4y ago
  Look at what's happening now.
- hakfoo 4y ago
  This right there. NATO, in its original context, was largely obsolete after 1991. The threat that it was engineered to defend against was gone. The day the tricolour went up over Moscow, we should have started drafting a post-NATO organization which explicitly included Russia (and the more stable/functional/too-armed-too-ignore post-Soviet states) as equal partners. This would have been important both geopolitically and psychologically. The message should have been clear: we are now on the same team. If someone joins our bloc, we both win. Let's focus on the threats we face (i. e. perpetual Middle East instability, or retiring the Soviet weapons that ended up in unstable hands) together. Then you don't have 30 years of every NATO and EU expansion being easily interpreted as a dismantling of the historic Russian/Soviet sphere of influence.
  - NicoJuicy 4y ago
    NATO doesn't allow members quickly. There were joint NATOmissions with Russia, but Putin didn't like that US intervened in Iraq ( in it's sphere of influence). Since then the relation degraded. There's an extensive report of military interventions the last 30 years of Russia. You should read it ;)