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The US' response has been incompetent. They're shipping billions of dollars in weapons to a country that every single media outlet admitted was constricted by s

by 0xy 4y ago

The US' response has been incompetent. They're shipping billions of dollars in weapons to a country that every single media outlet admitted was constricted by systemic corruption mere years ago, and less than 30% of the weapons make it to the front lines. You read that right. 70% of the US' weapons aid to Ukraine mysteriously disappears ($16,100,000,000 so far!). It's likely being sold by corrupt officials or stolen by European criminal gangs. All of that military-grade hardware is going to be used to fuel European cartel and gang violence, because that's where it's going. All further weapon aid to Ukraine should be considered another Operation Fast and Furious, but this time instead of arming cartels in Mexico, the US Government is arming cartels and gangs in Europe. Yet another foreign policy disaster, after swinging out of Afghanistan with nothing to show for it. That's aside from the fact the US likely egged Russia on to invade in the first place, after all their invasion came weeks after Kamala Harris was on a sabre-rattling tour of Europe (she advocated Ukraine join NATO, a red line for Russia). With friends like the US, why does Europe even need enemies?

bawolff 4y ago
70% of weapond being diverted is a pretty bold claim. Can you back that up with a source?
- 0xy 4y ago
  The source is a European NGO on the ground, who claims 30-40% arrives to the front, and reported by US media. [1] The US had absolutely zero tracking for weapons they were sending. It's just a free-for-all for corrupt officials, of which Ukraine has many (2nd most corrupt in Europe [2] [3] [4]). [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-military-aid-weapons-front-lines/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-military-aid-weapons-fr... [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20181107104015/https://fraudsurveys.ey.com/ey-global-fraud-survey-2018/detailed-results/ https://web.archive.org/web/20181107104015/https://fraudsurv... [3] https://www.newsweek.com/corruption-stalling-ukraine-optimistic-revolution-425477 https://www.newsweek.com/corruption-stalling-ukraine-optimis... [4] http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/91317/ http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/91317/
  - tobltobs 4y ago
    Your first link only says that at the beginning it was only 30%, which isn't a too big surprise considering the chaos at this time and it is talking about non lethal weapons only anyway. "Jonas Ohman is founder and CEO of Blue-Yellow, a Lithuania-based organization that has been meeting with and supplying frontline units with non-lethal military aid in Ukraine since the start of the conflict with Russia-backed separatists in 2014. Back in April, he estimated that just "30-40%" of the supplies coming across the border reached its final destination. But he says the situation has significantly improved since then and a much larger quantity now gets where it's supposed to go."
    - 0xy 4y ago
      That statement doesn't say he's referring to non-lethal weapons, nor does the article say that. Additionally, the bulk of the weapons were sent prior to the "improvements". So, where's the $16,000,000,000 in weapons that vanished? Do you even know how many weapons that is? Operation Fast and Furious was only 2,000 firearms. This is a far bigger deal. The US' Brigadier General arrived in August for auditing - this month! So everything was just getting stolen before now? Pentagon officials have no faith that the US is keeping tabs on the weapons, from another US source. [1] It's a bit laughable anyone could defend Ukraine politicians, given all the graft. Most recently, the wife of a former politician tried to flee with $28m in cash in suitcases. Totally legit I'm sure. [2] [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/02/congress-pentagon-ukraine-aid-oversight-00036463 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/02/congress-pentagon-u... [2] https://nationalpost.com/news/world/wife-of-former-ukrainian-politician-caught-with-28m-in-cash-at-hungarian-border-reports https://nationalpost.com/news/world/wife-of-former-ukrainian...
      - pawsforthought 4y ago
        Just to add to this, Interpol’s Secretary General, Jürgen Stock, warned of this early on in the war [1]: “We can expect an influx of weapons in Europe and beyond. We should be alarmed and we have to expect these weapons to be trafficked not only to neighbouring countries but to other continents.” [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/02/ukraine-weapons-end-up-criminal-hands-says-interpol-chief-jurgen-stock https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/02/ukraine-weapon...
elvin_d 4y ago
It's not the first time the user making similar claims regarding Ukraine, such as [1] falsely claiming the country support nazi groups. The claim of about 30% is inaccurate in the roots and Jonas Ohman words taken out of context [2]. Anyway, the investigation should be done but the commenter misleading everyone by trying to convert the theoretical 30% into $$$. Additionally, the links that you provided in other comment misleading even more: 1. Providing a link from 2010 when Ukraine had a president Yanukovych and resulted in the maidan. 2. Survey with 25 responders. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30834924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30834924 [2] https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/08/09/taken-out-of-context-cbs-documentary-claims-on-ukrainian-military-aid-going-missing-debunked/ https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/08/09/taken-out-of-context-...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Pigalowda 4y ago
So much weak whining. Were you crying while you wrote this? $16B is so little to the US military that even for regular Americans it doesn’t move the needle of outrage like you think it would. The US spent $2T and 20 years on mujahideen. Do you think anyone even liked those people? 6 months of Russian humiliation and this is the strength of their propaganda? $16B? Lol
- herewulf 4y ago
  It's $16B that could go to something else, even within the US military. I am aware of quite a few things within the US military that have been mysteriously defunded since February/March. And US taxpayers should be upset about the $2T also.
  - Pigalowda 4y ago
    My man you don’t have a TS clearance and you’re not on a need to know basis. Ongoing US DoD budgets are out of your element. Any public information is useless conjecture or hearsay. $2T is a different problem and old news. Your $16B is a drop in the bucket and an acceptable cost of doing business. Just to give you a little insight into the process here: The US annual military budget is around $800B year after year. How many times has the US been able to spend this little money to have a client state destroy so much Russian equipment? Maybe in Vietnam when the US was directly destroying Soviet equipment given to the VC. But that was hugely expensive on the US side
- 0xy 4y ago
  It clearly isn't about the money, it's about the scale of weapons about to be used in Europe to fuel cartel and gang violence. Who do you think is stealing and buying these weapons? Cartels, gangs, criminals, arms traffickers. The price tag is human life, not $16bn.

by 0xy 4y ago

bawolff 4y ago

70% of weapond being diverted is a pretty bold claim. Can you back that up with a source?

0xy 4y ago
The source is a European NGO on the ground, who claims 30-40% arrives to the front, and reported by US media. [1] The US had absolutely zero tracking for weapons they were sending. It's just a free-for-all for corrupt officials, of which Ukraine has many (2nd most corrupt in Europe [2] [3] [4]). [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-military-aid-weapons-front-lines/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-military-aid-weapons-fr... [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20181107104015/https://fraudsurveys.ey.com/ey-global-fraud-survey-2018/detailed-results/ https://web.archive.org/web/20181107104015/https://fraudsurv... [3] https://www.newsweek.com/corruption-stalling-ukraine-optimistic-revolution-425477 https://www.newsweek.com/corruption-stalling-ukraine-optimis... [4] http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/91317/ http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/91317/
- tobltobs 4y ago
  Your first link only says that at the beginning it was only 30%, which isn't a too big surprise considering the chaos at this time and it is talking about non lethal weapons only anyway. "Jonas Ohman is founder and CEO of Blue-Yellow, a Lithuania-based organization that has been meeting with and supplying frontline units with non-lethal military aid in Ukraine since the start of the conflict with Russia-backed separatists in 2014. Back in April, he estimated that just "30-40%" of the supplies coming across the border reached its final destination. But he says the situation has significantly improved since then and a much larger quantity now gets where it's supposed to go."
  - 0xy 4y ago
    That statement doesn't say he's referring to non-lethal weapons, nor does the article say that. Additionally, the bulk of the weapons were sent prior to the "improvements". So, where's the $16,000,000,000 in weapons that vanished? Do you even know how many weapons that is? Operation Fast and Furious was only 2,000 firearms. This is a far bigger deal. The US' Brigadier General arrived in August for auditing - this month! So everything was just getting stolen before now? Pentagon officials have no faith that the US is keeping tabs on the weapons, from another US source. [1] It's a bit laughable anyone could defend Ukraine politicians, given all the graft. Most recently, the wife of a former politician tried to flee with $28m in cash in suitcases. Totally legit I'm sure. [2] [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/02/congress-pentagon-ukraine-aid-oversight-00036463 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/02/congress-pentagon-u... [2] https://nationalpost.com/news/world/wife-of-former-ukrainian-politician-caught-with-28m-in-cash-at-hungarian-border-reports https://nationalpost.com/news/world/wife-of-former-ukrainian...
    - pawsforthought 4y ago
      Just to add to this, Interpol’s Secretary General, Jürgen Stock, warned of this early on in the war [1]: “We can expect an influx of weapons in Europe and beyond. We should be alarmed and we have to expect these weapons to be trafficked not only to neighbouring countries but to other continents.” [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/02/ukraine-weapons-end-up-criminal-hands-says-interpol-chief-jurgen-stock https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/02/ukraine-weapon...

elvin_d 4y ago

It's not the first time the user making similar claims regarding Ukraine, such as [1] falsely claiming the country support nazi groups. The claim of about 30% is inaccurate in the roots and Jonas Ohman words taken out of context [2]. Anyway, the investigation should be done but the commenter misleading everyone by trying to convert the theoretical 30% into $$$. Additionally, the links that you provided in other comment misleading even more: 1. Providing a link from 2010 when Ukraine had a president Yanukovych and resulted in the maidan. 2. Survey with 25 responders. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30834924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30834924 [2] https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/08/09/taken-out-of-context-cbs-documentary-claims-on-ukrainian-military-aid-going-missing-debunked/ https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/08/09/taken-out-of-context-...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Pigalowda 4y ago

So much weak whining. Were you crying while you wrote this? $16B is so little to the US military that even for regular Americans it doesn’t move the needle of outrage like you think it would. The US spent $2T and 20 years on mujahideen. Do you think anyone even liked those people? 6 months of Russian humiliation and this is the strength of their propaganda? $16B? Lol

herewulf 4y ago
It's $16B that could go to something else, even within the US military. I am aware of quite a few things within the US military that have been mysteriously defunded since February/March. And US taxpayers should be upset about the $2T also.
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  My man you don’t have a TS clearance and you’re not on a need to know basis. Ongoing US DoD budgets are out of your element. Any public information is useless conjecture or hearsay. $2T is a different problem and old news. Your $16B is a drop in the bucket and an acceptable cost of doing business. Just to give you a little insight into the process here: The US annual military budget is around $800B year after year. How many times has the US been able to spend this little money to have a client state destroy so much Russian equipment? Maybe in Vietnam when the US was directly destroying Soviet equipment given to the VC. But that was hugely expensive on the US side
0xy 4y ago
It clearly isn't about the money, it's about the scale of weapons about to be used in Europe to fuel cartel and gang violence. Who do you think is stealing and buying these weapons? Cartels, gangs, criminals, arms traffickers. The price tag is human life, not $16bn.