6 ms·

The Soviets hunted whales to the brink of extinction but scientists tracked toll

102 points by tomohawk 4y ago

ggm 4y ago
Not to go too far in this, but a lot of cultures aside from the soviets are complicit in this hunt, The icelanders, the japanese. The further back in time you go, the more there are. Soviet whaling was "central" is important, and the book would be fascinating but its central.. to a group of economies. It wasn't solely responsible. What the soviet union needed was protein. It bought fish from as many sources as possible. I don't like the lies told, about their catch rate to the IWC and I don't like the pressure they put on open markets to source this protein, irrespective of catch limits. This is something the Chinese economy has to do as well. They over-fish far and wide. This has to be actively policed inside each maritime nations exclusive economic zone. It's a big deal, and its a big cost keeping the boats which do this at sea continuously. Japan over caught wild tuna for decades. I personally believe the parade of IWC theatre, was being used by the Tuna industry to mask the real story of their rape of the sea. Whale meat was a manufactured demand, Tuna was endogenous. (we read of huge frozen stocks of whale, and whale being offered below cost in school meals) I really do think the omygodwhales reaction, allowed the tuna over-catch to "sail under the radar" for a long time. (The Article explicitly calls out the UK, Japan and Norway in this story.)
- wumpus 4y ago
  > but a lot of cultures aside from the soviets are complicit in this hunt As you note, the article says this. I'm not sure what you think you're correcting.
  - realaleris149 4y ago
    Maybe the title?
    - ggm 4y ago
      Yes. But the source article is the same. Really? I'm just whining. I wish people would be better about this.
- tomohawk 4y ago
  Soviet whaling was different in that it was directed by the government. They did not get started until well after most other countries had stopped the practice. Since it was the government, they did not care about the economics of it at all. Since it was the soviets, they didn't care what anyone else thought.
- jollyllama 4y ago
  >protein I thought whale meat was mostly blubber which I thought was mostly fat.
bluedino 4y ago
It seems like the oceans would be full of whales and they couldn't be over hunted, but European settlers managed to hunt all but a handful of Bison in early America.
- binbashthefash 4y ago
  It wasn't a hunt, more a mass slaughter
- nix23 4y ago
  >but European settlers managed to hunt all but a handful of Bison in early America. Old Story.. >>New Study Says Ancient Humans Hunted Big Mammals To Extinction https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/19/604031141/new-study-says-ancient-humans-hunted-big-mammals-to-extinction?t=1660817969846 https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/19/604031141...
epistasis 4y ago
Yet another example for the large segment of people who I encounter who think that "profit" and "capitalism" are the only reasons there's environmental damage, and the only way to stop environmental damage is to eliminate profit and capitalism.
- behnamoh 4y ago
  Just because X is bad and X opposes Y, doesn't mean Y isn't bad.
- mc32 4y ago
  It's rather unrelated to economic system and more related to culture and shared principles. The economic systems can reflect those values, however. The Soviets did a lot of things "because they could"
  - xhevahir 4y ago
    I don't know how much communism specifically has to do with the USSR's degradation of the environment, but their pursuit of autarky certainly is to blame for a lot, especially the depletion of the Aral Sea.
- tjr225 4y ago
  Do you really think that the soviets who were whaling weren’t concerned with profits? Do you seriously think that the Soviet system was some sort of perfect expression of a political ideal? Come on.
  - epistasis 4y ago
    Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my comment, but I am not the one who thinks that the Soviet system was close to achieving even most of its own goals.
    - tjr225 4y ago
      No; it was perfectly clear. Who can you even point to in our society comes even remotely close to aligning with Soviet ideals? Like who are you even talking about? Nobody with leftist ideals thinks that the Soviet regime did things right.
spicyramen_ 4y ago
latchkey 4y ago
No mention of Sea Shepherd, one of the largest organizations still, to this day, working to protect whales. Sometimes with extremely aggressive and almost cringe tactics (see their old series on TV). They even just got a new boat, which was an old Japanese fishing vessel... https://seashepherd.org/2022/07/27/sea-shepherd-conservation-society-expands-fleet/ https://seashepherd.org/2022/07/27/sea-shepherd-conservation... No more Paul though... watch the video... his anger is real. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animals/captain-paul-watson-cuts-ties-with-sea-shepherd-usa-after-disagreement-of-organizations-path/ https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animals/captain-paul-watson-c...
bmitc 4y ago
They also capture them and then sell them to the Chinese and probably whoever else will buy them. There was a relatively famous episode where they caught several orcas, dolphins, and beluga whales, if I remember correctly, and many of them basically starved or froze to death in pens. The lack of respect humans have for animal life, including human life, is truly disturbing and saddening. One of the worst parts growing up is finding this out. And it seems certain cultures have even less respect.

102 points by tomohawk 4y ago

ggm 4y ago

Not to go too far in this, but a lot of cultures aside from the soviets are complicit in this hunt, The icelanders, the japanese. The further back in time you go, the more there are. Soviet whaling was "central" is important, and the book would be fascinating but its central.. to a group of economies. It wasn't solely responsible. What the soviet union needed was protein. It bought fish from as many sources as possible. I don't like the lies told, about their catch rate to the IWC and I don't like the pressure they put on open markets to source this protein, irrespective of catch limits. This is something the Chinese economy has to do as well. They over-fish far and wide. This has to be actively policed inside each maritime nations exclusive economic zone. It's a big deal, and its a big cost keeping the boats which do this at sea continuously. Japan over caught wild tuna for decades. I personally believe the parade of IWC theatre, was being used by the Tuna industry to mask the real story of their rape of the sea. Whale meat was a manufactured demand, Tuna was endogenous. (we read of huge frozen stocks of whale, and whale being offered below cost in school meals) I really do think the omygodwhales reaction, allowed the tuna over-catch to "sail under the radar" for a long time. (The Article explicitly calls out the UK, Japan and Norway in this story.)

wumpus 4y ago
> but a lot of cultures aside from the soviets are complicit in this hunt As you note, the article says this. I'm not sure what you think you're correcting.
- realaleris149 4y ago
  Maybe the title?
  - ggm 4y ago
    Yes. But the source article is the same. Really? I'm just whining. I wish people would be better about this.
tomohawk 4y ago
Soviet whaling was different in that it was directed by the government. They did not get started until well after most other countries had stopped the practice. Since it was the government, they did not care about the economics of it at all. Since it was the soviets, they didn't care what anyone else thought.
jollyllama 4y ago
>protein I thought whale meat was mostly blubber which I thought was mostly fat.

bluedino 4y ago

It seems like the oceans would be full of whales and they couldn't be over hunted, but European settlers managed to hunt all but a handful of Bison in early America.

binbashthefash 4y ago
It wasn't a hunt, more a mass slaughter
nix23 4y ago
>but European settlers managed to hunt all but a handful of Bison in early America. Old Story.. >>New Study Says Ancient Humans Hunted Big Mammals To Extinction https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/19/604031141/new-study-says-ancient-humans-hunted-big-mammals-to-extinction?t=1660817969846 https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/19/604031141...

epistasis 4y ago

Yet another example for the large segment of people who I encounter who think that "profit" and "capitalism" are the only reasons there's environmental damage, and the only way to stop environmental damage is to eliminate profit and capitalism.

behnamoh 4y ago
Just because X is bad and X opposes Y, doesn't mean Y isn't bad.
mc32 4y ago
It's rather unrelated to economic system and more related to culture and shared principles. The economic systems can reflect those values, however. The Soviets did a lot of things "because they could"
- xhevahir 4y ago
  I don't know how much communism specifically has to do with the USSR's degradation of the environment, but their pursuit of autarky certainly is to blame for a lot, especially the depletion of the Aral Sea.
tjr225 4y ago
Do you really think that the soviets who were whaling weren’t concerned with profits? Do you seriously think that the Soviet system was some sort of perfect expression of a political ideal? Come on.
- epistasis 4y ago
  Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my comment, but I am not the one who thinks that the Soviet system was close to achieving even most of its own goals.
  - tjr225 4y ago
    No; it was perfectly clear. Who can you even point to in our society comes even remotely close to aligning with Soviet ideals? Like who are you even talking about? Nobody with leftist ideals thinks that the Soviet regime did things right.

spicyramen_ 4y ago

latchkey 4y ago

No mention of Sea Shepherd, one of the largest organizations still, to this day, working to protect whales. Sometimes with extremely aggressive and almost cringe tactics (see their old series on TV). They even just got a new boat, which was an old Japanese fishing vessel... https://seashepherd.org/2022/07/27/sea-shepherd-conservation-society-expands-fleet/ https://seashepherd.org/2022/07/27/sea-shepherd-conservation... No more Paul though... watch the video... his anger is real. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animals/captain-paul-watson-cuts-ties-with-sea-shepherd-usa-after-disagreement-of-organizations-path/ https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animals/captain-paul-watson-c...

bmitc 4y ago

They also capture them and then sell them to the Chinese and probably whoever else will buy them. There was a relatively famous episode where they caught several orcas, dolphins, and beluga whales, if I remember correctly, and many of them basically starved or froze to death in pens. The lack of respect humans have for animal life, including human life, is truly disturbing and saddening. One of the worst parts growing up is finding this out. And it seems certain cultures have even less respect.