7 ms·

>Apple suppliers Luxshare Precision Industry and Foxconn lol this is a political move, they are just creating Vietnamese shell companies owned by their same Ch

>Apple suppliers Luxshare Precision Industry and Foxconn lol this is a political move, they are just creating Vietnamese shell companies owned by their same Chinese suppliers to get some good PR.

rjzzleep 4y ago
It's not a political move. Vietnamese manufacturing is cheaper than Chinese. Chinese labour has gotten expensive over time. EDIT: politics are definitely a welcome side effect, but not the main reason
- baybal2 4y ago
- alphabetting 4y ago
  Why would Apple decide to build in Vietnam after secretly committing $275B to advance Chinese manufacturing? Western political heat seems most logical.
  - thetinguy 4y ago
    Because 0 Covid policies are leading to unpredictable and extended delays.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    How does Apple “secretly” commit to spending $275B? It couldn’t be too much of a secret if random HN posters know about it.
    - alphabetting 4y ago
      it was secret for years until The Information reported it. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/12/report-apple-ceo-tim-cook-engineered-a-secret-275-billion-deal-with-china/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/12/report-apple-ceo-tim...
      - mr_toad 4y ago
        Most businesses deals are secret by default. All my contracts have confidentiality clauses. The only reason to make a deal non-secret is PR.
        alphabetting 4y ago
        >Most businesses deals are secret by default. All my contracts have confidentiality clauses. Not true for investments in the hundreds of billions. >The only reason to make a deal non-secret is PR. This deal was kept secret for PR reasons.
        stale2002 4y ago
        So then yes you agree with the person you are talking to completely, that yes it was secret, and you disagree completely with the person who was saying that it wasn't secret. You just agree 100% with the person you were responding to, and brought up an irrelevant point.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Because the trade war happened and we just had two years of supply chain disruptions.
- newsclues 4y ago
  Also Covid-19 lockdowns, and diversified factories is making sense.
- jollybean 4y ago
  Since the Russia-Ukraine war broke out politics is now a primary driver. China has indicated that it is 100% going to retake Taiwan. Their threat is credible. There were indications it would be soon. War is a 'new reality' again and we can see the consequences of it. If you have geopolitical liabilities and you have 10 year strategic planning, then you calculate the odds of 'major conflict' the diversifying away from China is a priority. Anyone not divesting from China right now is going to get rocked. Not fully divested but I mean the critical things. We have to plan for China arm of the business dissapeaering overnight.
  - rjzzleep 4y ago
    Your little rant seems to have missed that these companies are still owned by Foxxconn and Luxshare. And while Foxxconn may be Taiwanese both the company and the owner are on very very friendly terms with China, which is unlikely to change. The world didn't start with 2022 Ukraine(even the Ukraine conflict didn't magically begin in 2022), most of these conflicts started long before Ukraine. The Indian foreign minister also tried to remind the world that it's foolish to try to make everything about Ukraine(see minute 2:30) and yet people don't seem to want to understand the viewpoints of the other 5 billion[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2EdQD_Eag0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2EdQD_Eag0
    - jollybean 4y ago
      Thankfully your little ranty response doesn't change the thesis at all. If a war broke out between Taiwan and China - Vietnamese operations would be able to continue irrespective of Foxxcon's ownership. Which is the whole point. The Indian foreign minister's comments are irrelevant in this context, and he's foolish to not contemplate the gravity of the war in Ukraine which has rattled the entire world economy. Actually, not 'foolish' just greedy: he wants to support Putin buy buying cheap Oil, and needs Russia to not be too close to China. India, politically, is turning into a vile place, which is sad because there's been so much hope for them. Maybe they'll come back. Russia->Ukraine is an invasion of the 2cnd largest Army in the world, of a relatively modern (if corrupt), large nation in Europe, directly connected to the EU, that has geopolitical implications the world over, as we've seen. Russian Defence Minister has declared that 'The Soviet Unions is Back' and their intentions to expand the Russian Empire into other countries. They've been trying to disrupt NATO nations (i.e. Latvia) for some time, and of course have their eyes on the Georgia and the 'Stans'. That affects everyone. There has not been a war affecting major powers in a very, long time. Iraq and Afghanistan (and are not) geopolitically very important. Neither was the Iran/Iraq war. Those wars could happen while the world watched and tried to figure out 'what to do' i.e. 'intervene' or 'not take sides' etc. but those wars are not going to spill out into the world economy. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is existential, just like a war between China and Taiwan is a 'hugely significant war' that will rattle the global economy like nothing we've seen in decades. It will involve the US likely directly meaning world's #1 and #2 forces, both nuclear and huge trading partners, and likely include Korea, Japan, Australia, maybe Canada as well. Possibly Europe. The result could shift the world order in the same way that Russian/Ukrainian invasion is i.e. Asians will be forced to pick sides in the cold war: USA/Japan/Korea/Australia/Europe ... or be Chinese vassal. Or try to fanatically figure out an in-between path, which maybe only India has the power to do. Those with foresight would have seen this impending reality 10 years ago (see: Kevin Rudd, former Australian PM leading the Asia Society in US) but only now it's become very evident. And FYI it's actually quite rare that we can predict a war so early on - only when you have a kind of foreign policy that's really consistent over time is this going to happen. And so: big companies realign. Those who don't are likely to pay a price. China's #1 foreign policy goal is to take Taiwan and they are going to use all of their resources to try to do it.
foepys 4y ago
It's probably not even for good PR. As far as I know China has become quite more expensive for manufacturing, so companies switch to other countries like India, Bangladesh, Thailand, and Vietnam.
mstudio 4y ago
Is this a fact (or have other co's done this)? I'm genuinely curious. I assume they'd hire Vietnamese employees though.
jsnk 4y ago
It's a start. What other reasonable moves do you expect to reduce Chinese manufacturing dependency? At Apple scale, you can only make such large transition over multiple years. Vietnam is a capable developing country that may do a lot manufacturing in the future. Samsung has been working with Vietnamese subsidiaries for a while now, so move by Apple is already proven to be viable.
bergenty 4y ago
I think like 7% of iPhone 13s are also made in India and that number is supposed to grow so I think they’re trying to hedge well.
shp0ngle 4y ago
However they still actually make the products there. Last time I look, Apple was hiring a lot of HW engineers in Saigon. (Still no SW engineers, though :)) Also, Foxconn is a Taiwanese company, not Chinese. (Setting aside the issue of "what is China, really".)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

>Apple suppliers Luxshare Precision Industry and Foxconn lol this is a political move, they are just creating Vietnamese shell companies owned by their same Chinese suppliers to get some good PR.

rjzzleep 4y ago

It's not a political move. Vietnamese manufacturing is cheaper than Chinese. Chinese labour has gotten expensive over time. EDIT: politics are definitely a welcome side effect, but not the main reason

baybal2 4y ago
alphabetting 4y ago
Why would Apple decide to build in Vietnam after secretly committing $275B to advance Chinese manufacturing? Western political heat seems most logical.
- thetinguy 4y ago
  Because 0 Covid policies are leading to unpredictable and extended delays.
- scarface74 4y ago
  How does Apple “secretly” commit to spending $275B? It couldn’t be too much of a secret if random HN posters know about it.
  - alphabetting 4y ago
    it was secret for years until The Information reported it. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/12/report-apple-ceo-tim-cook-engineered-a-secret-275-billion-deal-with-china/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/12/report-apple-ceo-tim...
    - mr_toad 4y ago
      Most businesses deals are secret by default. All my contracts have confidentiality clauses. The only reason to make a deal non-secret is PR.
      - alphabetting 4y ago
        >Most businesses deals are secret by default. All my contracts have confidentiality clauses. Not true for investments in the hundreds of billions. >The only reason to make a deal non-secret is PR. This deal was kept secret for PR reasons.
      - stale2002 4y ago
        So then yes you agree with the person you are talking to completely, that yes it was secret, and you disagree completely with the person who was saying that it wasn't secret. You just agree 100% with the person you were responding to, and brought up an irrelevant point.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Because the trade war happened and we just had two years of supply chain disruptions.
newsclues 4y ago
Also Covid-19 lockdowns, and diversified factories is making sense.
jollybean 4y ago
Since the Russia-Ukraine war broke out politics is now a primary driver. China has indicated that it is 100% going to retake Taiwan. Their threat is credible. There were indications it would be soon. War is a 'new reality' again and we can see the consequences of it. If you have geopolitical liabilities and you have 10 year strategic planning, then you calculate the odds of 'major conflict' the diversifying away from China is a priority. Anyone not divesting from China right now is going to get rocked. Not fully divested but I mean the critical things. We have to plan for China arm of the business dissapeaering overnight.
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  Your little rant seems to have missed that these companies are still owned by Foxxconn and Luxshare. And while Foxxconn may be Taiwanese both the company and the owner are on very very friendly terms with China, which is unlikely to change. The world didn't start with 2022 Ukraine(even the Ukraine conflict didn't magically begin in 2022), most of these conflicts started long before Ukraine. The Indian foreign minister also tried to remind the world that it's foolish to try to make everything about Ukraine(see minute 2:30) and yet people don't seem to want to understand the viewpoints of the other 5 billion[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2EdQD_Eag0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2EdQD_Eag0
  - jollybean 4y ago
    Thankfully your little ranty response doesn't change the thesis at all. If a war broke out between Taiwan and China - Vietnamese operations would be able to continue irrespective of Foxxcon's ownership. Which is the whole point. The Indian foreign minister's comments are irrelevant in this context, and he's foolish to not contemplate the gravity of the war in Ukraine which has rattled the entire world economy. Actually, not 'foolish' just greedy: he wants to support Putin buy buying cheap Oil, and needs Russia to not be too close to China. India, politically, is turning into a vile place, which is sad because there's been so much hope for them. Maybe they'll come back. Russia->Ukraine is an invasion of the 2cnd largest Army in the world, of a relatively modern (if corrupt), large nation in Europe, directly connected to the EU, that has geopolitical implications the world over, as we've seen. Russian Defence Minister has declared that 'The Soviet Unions is Back' and their intentions to expand the Russian Empire into other countries. They've been trying to disrupt NATO nations (i.e. Latvia) for some time, and of course have their eyes on the Georgia and the 'Stans'. That affects everyone. There has not been a war affecting major powers in a very, long time. Iraq and Afghanistan (and are not) geopolitically very important. Neither was the Iran/Iraq war. Those wars could happen while the world watched and tried to figure out 'what to do' i.e. 'intervene' or 'not take sides' etc. but those wars are not going to spill out into the world economy. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is existential, just like a war between China and Taiwan is a 'hugely significant war' that will rattle the global economy like nothing we've seen in decades. It will involve the US likely directly meaning world's #1 and #2 forces, both nuclear and huge trading partners, and likely include Korea, Japan, Australia, maybe Canada as well. Possibly Europe. The result could shift the world order in the same way that Russian/Ukrainian invasion is i.e. Asians will be forced to pick sides in the cold war: USA/Japan/Korea/Australia/Europe ... or be Chinese vassal. Or try to fanatically figure out an in-between path, which maybe only India has the power to do. Those with foresight would have seen this impending reality 10 years ago (see: Kevin Rudd, former Australian PM leading the Asia Society in US) but only now it's become very evident. And FYI it's actually quite rare that we can predict a war so early on - only when you have a kind of foreign policy that's really consistent over time is this going to happen. And so: big companies realign. Those who don't are likely to pay a price. China's #1 foreign policy goal is to take Taiwan and they are going to use all of their resources to try to do it.

foepys 4y ago

It's probably not even for good PR. As far as I know China has become quite more expensive for manufacturing, so companies switch to other countries like India, Bangladesh, Thailand, and Vietnam.

mstudio 4y ago

Is this a fact (or have other co's done this)? I'm genuinely curious. I assume they'd hire Vietnamese employees though.

jsnk 4y ago

It's a start. What other reasonable moves do you expect to reduce Chinese manufacturing dependency? At Apple scale, you can only make such large transition over multiple years. Vietnam is a capable developing country that may do a lot manufacturing in the future. Samsung has been working with Vietnamese subsidiaries for a while now, so move by Apple is already proven to be viable.

bergenty 4y ago

I think like 7% of iPhone 13s are also made in India and that number is supposed to grow so I think they’re trying to hedge well.

shp0ngle 4y ago

However they still actually make the products there. Last time I look, Apple was hiring a lot of HW engineers in Saigon. (Still no SW engineers, though :)) Also, Foxconn is a Taiwanese company, not Chinese. (Setting aside the issue of "what is China, really".)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]