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> Many people seem to want to live in large, densely populated areas, and for most people that is always going to mean renting. The "for most people that is al

> Many people seem to want to live in large, densely populated areas, and for most people that is always going to mean renting. The "for most people that is always going to mean renting" is that part that we could change through large scale collective policy. That's what Singapore has done for example. No one doubts whether people want to live in cities. We are asking whether the model of private landlords is the best way to manage large quantities of housing in cites. Look at Singapore: "Eighty-two percent of Singapore’s residents live in HDB-built (Housing Development Board) apartments, of which there are more than 900,000. In contrast to both New York and Vienna, HDB encourages public housing residents to purchase their apartments. Nine out of ten HDB residents own their homes. The 50,000 rental units are, according to the HDB website, 'for the truly needy who have no other viable housing options.'" [1] So yes, people want to live in dense cities. It does NOT automatically follow that they will have to rent. This is a policy choice. [1] https://charterforcompassion.org/shareable-community-ideas/public-housing-works-lessons-from-vienna-and-singapore https://charterforcompassion.org/shareable-community-ideas/p...

carom 4y ago
We do not need to hand over ownership to the government to build more houses. Just simplify zoning laws. Private landlords want to build. People want to maximize the value of their properties. They can't because of zoning laws that favor single family home hellscapes.
- naasking 4y ago
  > They can't because of zoning laws that favor single family home hellscapes. This can easily go too far in the other direction though, carving up a single family sized living space into 5 tiny 400 sqft apartments. There have to be incentives for mixed sized living spaces.
  - presentation 4y ago
    There is, that is “the market is willing to buy mixed sized living spaces.” I live in Tokyo, my first apartment was shocked pikachu 230sqft! Oh, the horror! And yet there are plenty of single family homes and 2500+ sqft apartments if you want that. Just in the USA, if you want to live small - the government forcibly tells you that you’re not welcome here.
    - naasking 4y ago
      The market is willing theoretically, but practically with high property values there's more incentive to build tons of smaller units since they'll sell for more in aggregate. This happened in my city, where there's a distinct lack of family-sized apartments in the downtown core. Only older buildings from the 80s prior to recent real estate booms built decent sized units suitable for families.
      - presentation 4y ago
        Well I guess that's the problem with having failed to produce housing supply for decades, until the balance of the market got so far out of whack that pressure for smaller units is that high. Tokyo built both housing and infrastructure to increase the viable land to live in striking distance to the commercial core, and so that's not an issue (although typical apartment sizes for family homes included are much smaller across the board because of the premium on space). To me, it's a scenario of pick your poison - continue to be unaffordable because society is not willing to accept the consequences of its failures, or eat the consequences for a brighter future. In cities like SF, I don't see a world where it will ever get affordable if they insist that everyone needs to live in 1000+ sqft apartments, unless you plan to pack it to the gills with ultra-tall skyscrapers (never happening) or it becomes so undesirable to live there that people just stop moving there (unlikely, but given the rampant human rights violations it commits everyday to its denizens... well maybe that's the most likely scenario). Aside, Americans don't know what small apartments even mean. The presence of super tiny Tokyo apartments is a great thing IMO, it means that people can still live centrally even if they aren't rich. I think a lot of people would happily accept a well-designed 200 sqft apartment over a 2-hour commute, if society gave them that option, since Tokyo residents do that en masse everyday.
- pdonis 4y ago
  > single family home hellscapes "Hellscapes" is uncalled for. Many people like living in single family homes. The goal of housing should not be to enforce a single cookie cutter configuration on everybody. It should be to enable a free market in housing so that all of the different preferences people have for housing can have a reasonable chance of being met. I agree zoning laws should not favor single family homes to the detriment of other types, but equally they should not disfavor single family homes.
  - carom 4y ago
    I agree, people should be able to do with their property what they want. Many SFH owners actively try to block development of the properties they do not own, unfortunately.

carom 4y ago

We do not need to hand over ownership to the government to build more houses. Just simplify zoning laws. Private landlords want to build. People want to maximize the value of their properties. They can't because of zoning laws that favor single family home hellscapes.

naasking 4y ago
> They can't because of zoning laws that favor single family home hellscapes. This can easily go too far in the other direction though, carving up a single family sized living space into 5 tiny 400 sqft apartments. There have to be incentives for mixed sized living spaces.
- presentation 4y ago
  There is, that is “the market is willing to buy mixed sized living spaces.” I live in Tokyo, my first apartment was shocked pikachu 230sqft! Oh, the horror! And yet there are plenty of single family homes and 2500+ sqft apartments if you want that. Just in the USA, if you want to live small - the government forcibly tells you that you’re not welcome here.
  - naasking 4y ago
    The market is willing theoretically, but practically with high property values there's more incentive to build tons of smaller units since they'll sell for more in aggregate. This happened in my city, where there's a distinct lack of family-sized apartments in the downtown core. Only older buildings from the 80s prior to recent real estate booms built decent sized units suitable for families.
    - presentation 4y ago
      Well I guess that's the problem with having failed to produce housing supply for decades, until the balance of the market got so far out of whack that pressure for smaller units is that high. Tokyo built both housing and infrastructure to increase the viable land to live in striking distance to the commercial core, and so that's not an issue (although typical apartment sizes for family homes included are much smaller across the board because of the premium on space). To me, it's a scenario of pick your poison - continue to be unaffordable because society is not willing to accept the consequences of its failures, or eat the consequences for a brighter future. In cities like SF, I don't see a world where it will ever get affordable if they insist that everyone needs to live in 1000+ sqft apartments, unless you plan to pack it to the gills with ultra-tall skyscrapers (never happening) or it becomes so undesirable to live there that people just stop moving there (unlikely, but given the rampant human rights violations it commits everyday to its denizens... well maybe that's the most likely scenario). Aside, Americans don't know what small apartments even mean. The presence of super tiny Tokyo apartments is a great thing IMO, it means that people can still live centrally even if they aren't rich. I think a lot of people would happily accept a well-designed 200 sqft apartment over a 2-hour commute, if society gave them that option, since Tokyo residents do that en masse everyday.
pdonis 4y ago
> single family home hellscapes "Hellscapes" is uncalled for. Many people like living in single family homes. The goal of housing should not be to enforce a single cookie cutter configuration on everybody. It should be to enable a free market in housing so that all of the different preferences people have for housing can have a reasonable chance of being met. I agree zoning laws should not favor single family homes to the detriment of other types, but equally they should not disfavor single family homes.
- carom 4y ago
  I agree, people should be able to do with their property what they want. Many SFH owners actively try to block development of the properties they do not own, unfortunately.