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> Requires the HP Smart app download. > Subscription may be required; subscription may not be available in all countries > HP account required for full functi

by ommz 4y ago

> Requires the HP Smart app download. > Subscription may be required; subscription may not be available in all countries > HP account required for full functionality > Get up to 5,000 pages or up to 2 years of pre-filled toner The disclaimers, or more succinctly, the anti-feature section.

tinus_hn 4y ago
In other news one toner of a generic HP laser printer prints about 3500 pages, without apps or subscription. And then you can send them to HP and they’ll recycle it for free, if you care about the environmental impact. I don’t quite understand what is the market for this product.
- bayindirh 4y ago
  The biggest problem with higher end printers are on the long tail. I have a very nice Samsung laser printer. Networked, has duplex printing, fast, 3000 page toner and 9000 page imager with all replaceable rollers and everything. The thing is, it was built jointly with Xerox, and Samsung sold the division to HP. It's almost 10 years old, and can easily live for a decade more, but finding toners and imaging units become harder and harder. If these kind pf printers take off with much longer lives (and HP claims 50K pages with a single drum), the companies can support all their fleets with a single sack, indefinitely (in theory). Since there is less electronics, precious metals and plastics to produce and ship, it'll be also cheaper. I don't want to change devices because they are old. I want to use them as long as they run, and with global warming and pollution, everybody is moving to less-waste methods. I also run a HP 4515 "Web printer". All web services are deprecated, but it has mDNS, and everything can print wirelessly with no drivers. HP app enables me to print my photos after cropping them or scan directly to my phone. Otherwise it behaves like an old USB MFP which works with all desktop apps pat. Addenda: The unit is not used frequently, so I change toners really rarely now. Because of that, I want to stick with OEM refills as far as I can go. Knowing a little about inks and toners, their quality shows them on the long run. So, I don't trust an aftermarket toner to print archival documents. Same for the inkjet.
  - Wistar 4y ago
    I, too, am fond of the Samsung laser printers of yore. They are one of the very few laser printers that have a simple paper path and the built-in provisions to print on heavy stock. At the time, perhaps 4–5 years ago, the toner cartridges were about $35–$40 and lasted a good long time. About two years ago, I went to buy toner and the price was $135 and they were out of stock. I ended up replacing it with a Brother.
- extrapickles 4y ago
  I think the idea is to reduce (its reduce, reuse, recycle in order of preference) as a bag of toner needs less resources than a cartridge. The internet indicates a 5k page cartridge costs ~5kg of CO2 to make, and each trip to the recycling center costs ~1kg of CO2 (rough average cost of shipping a package). A 5k page pouch in a box weighs 0.2kg, assuming a 4x weight->CO2 cost (high end of plastic production), it comes out to 0.8kg of CO2 per pouch. This is less than the CO2 cost of shipping back the cartridge for recycling. If you assume the cost of return shipping and recycling is free, the cartridge will need to last >6 times to be worth it from a initial cost perspective. The figures I can find on cartridge lifetimes is 3-4 recycles before they are too worn to recycle again. Even though its single use, its still a net win from a lifecycle perspective.
  - tinus_hn 4y ago
    If you’re the kind of party that prints so much a 5000 page toner bag is worth the effort, you’re not going to be returning single toners to HP. You get a big box and send 50 at once. Also you should be aware a lot of those toners include some other roll that has a limited life, which means you can’t recycle (or refill) them forever. But if you get toner from a bag you’d have to replace the roll separately anyway. This might be skewing your figures.
andrewia 4y ago
I think that's only for the Wi-Fi printing. The HP smart app is terrible and makes you sign up for features that work on a local network. I just visit my printer's internal web server with a desktop user agent to show the "remote scan" features. Printing over local Wi-Fi doesn't need the HP Smart app, just the HP print service plugin that doesn't require login (and also conveniently enables USB printing, if you want to use an OTG dongle with your phone).
- macNchz 4y ago
  My brand new HP laser printer literally won’t do anything until you use the app to set it up and agree to never disconnect it from the internet or use an unapproved cartridge. This is what the printer’s internal web server shows: https://pasteboard.co/L4AbwCTw7G3s.jpg https://pasteboard.co/L4AbwCTw7G3s.jpg
bayindirh 4y ago
> Requires the HP Smart app download. To be able to scan your documents to your phone directly. > Subscription may be required; subscription may not be available in all countries For some advanced, Prizmo-like scan features and OCR which are probably cloud based. > Get up to 5,000 pages or up to 2 years of pre-filled toner Considering printers at same size provides ~3000 pages, that's good. 2 years is probably printing n 5% filled office documents every day or so. > HP account required for full functionality. For HP smart app and web-based functionality (like mail2print) to work, not the printer. HP is still the best manufacturer which provides a complete driver stack which provides same quality printing in Linux. CUPS supports them in "driverless" fashion now, too. I use an old HP 4515 web printer, which is the first generation of these devices. Many embedded web features are deprecated (like printables), but it still works great as a wireless, mobile enabled MFP.
- jonathantf2 4y ago
  The last 3 HP LaserJets we've bought at work have had to go back because they require an HP account to print. You can't use port 9100 unless you've got an account, it just sits at an error state. No matter what we did you couldn't sign in, their cloud service seems to be down all the time and support wouldn't help.
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    Strange. mine has an option called "Remove embedded web services", and it transforms to a dumb printer. Then you can re-enable it if you prefer later.
    - l8rlump 4y ago
      Embedded Web Services / EWS is their name for their web configuration interface. I don't think it has anything to do with GP's concerns. https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/ish_2029438-1929621-16 https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/ish_2029438-1929621-16
      - 4y ago
zepearl 4y ago
> ...or up to 2 years... How does that have to be interpreted? Will the printer request the toner to be changed after 2 years of ~inactivity or are they referring to the subscription? I bought a Kyocera about 10-15 years ago and one of its toner cartriges (CMYK) is still the original one... :P
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
broknbottle 4y ago
more like, the anti-consumer subscription based feature section. Two things are a sure thing post 2020, Covid and subscriptions.
cookiengineer 4y ago
Honestly, seing printers like this over the years and everything getting worse and worse makes me feel good about having an old Brother laser printer. It's monochrome, it's now 20 years old, but it's good enough for me. It keeps running and running, and the toner is dirt-cheap on the market. No internet, no spyware and no IoT-secured (tm) app required. Manufacturers like Epson and HP kind of force me into keeping this old thing alive when it eventually breaks down. I'm so glad we got CUPS and SANE as libraries. Without them, I would have to buy a newer model with current Windows support. The only thing that was missing in daily use is smartphone support, but an mDNS-SD service running on a little raspberry pi that shares the printer can fix that.
- nopenopenopeno 4y ago
  Mine is about 4 years old but same experience. Cheap to refill and works every time, even with Linux.
- andix 4y ago
  This is mostly still valid for current brother printers. I bought one last year, and the web interface looks exactly the same on the one I bought 15 years earlier. The only difference: it can do wifi now.
  - mangix 4y ago
    AirPrint is also great.
    - andix 4y ago
      Funnily my old printer can already do air print. I think it came with an early firmware update.
  - porbelm 4y ago
    When my boss needed a printer (to print out my contract for signing lol) a year and a half ago, he asked me what to get. The answer was, like always, a cheap b/w Brother -- since the LaserJet IIp is not in production any more. It's just like the workhorse in the old pub cellar that chugged out ream after ream of paper through the dust and moisture for years without breaking down. But with AirPrint too!
dboreham 4y ago
MBAs eating the world.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hotcoffeebear 4y ago
HP already asks for a login for using their app to pront or scan, wtf HP? Anyway using NAPS2 for scanning on windows, on linux works out of the box, even better than on windows (how come?).

by ommz 4y ago

tinus_hn 4y ago

In other news one toner of a generic HP laser printer prints about 3500 pages, without apps or subscription. And then you can send them to HP and they’ll recycle it for free, if you care about the environmental impact. I don’t quite understand what is the market for this product.

bayindirh 4y ago
The biggest problem with higher end printers are on the long tail. I have a very nice Samsung laser printer. Networked, has duplex printing, fast, 3000 page toner and 9000 page imager with all replaceable rollers and everything. The thing is, it was built jointly with Xerox, and Samsung sold the division to HP. It's almost 10 years old, and can easily live for a decade more, but finding toners and imaging units become harder and harder. If these kind pf printers take off with much longer lives (and HP claims 50K pages with a single drum), the companies can support all their fleets with a single sack, indefinitely (in theory). Since there is less electronics, precious metals and plastics to produce and ship, it'll be also cheaper. I don't want to change devices because they are old. I want to use them as long as they run, and with global warming and pollution, everybody is moving to less-waste methods. I also run a HP 4515 "Web printer". All web services are deprecated, but it has mDNS, and everything can print wirelessly with no drivers. HP app enables me to print my photos after cropping them or scan directly to my phone. Otherwise it behaves like an old USB MFP which works with all desktop apps pat. Addenda: The unit is not used frequently, so I change toners really rarely now. Because of that, I want to stick with OEM refills as far as I can go. Knowing a little about inks and toners, their quality shows them on the long run. So, I don't trust an aftermarket toner to print archival documents. Same for the inkjet.
- Wistar 4y ago
  I, too, am fond of the Samsung laser printers of yore. They are one of the very few laser printers that have a simple paper path and the built-in provisions to print on heavy stock. At the time, perhaps 4–5 years ago, the toner cartridges were about $35–$40 and lasted a good long time. About two years ago, I went to buy toner and the price was $135 and they were out of stock. I ended up replacing it with a Brother.
extrapickles 4y ago
I think the idea is to reduce (its reduce, reuse, recycle in order of preference) as a bag of toner needs less resources than a cartridge. The internet indicates a 5k page cartridge costs ~5kg of CO2 to make, and each trip to the recycling center costs ~1kg of CO2 (rough average cost of shipping a package). A 5k page pouch in a box weighs 0.2kg, assuming a 4x weight->CO2 cost (high end of plastic production), it comes out to 0.8kg of CO2 per pouch. This is less than the CO2 cost of shipping back the cartridge for recycling. If you assume the cost of return shipping and recycling is free, the cartridge will need to last >6 times to be worth it from a initial cost perspective. The figures I can find on cartridge lifetimes is 3-4 recycles before they are too worn to recycle again. Even though its single use, its still a net win from a lifecycle perspective.
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  If you’re the kind of party that prints so much a 5000 page toner bag is worth the effort, you’re not going to be returning single toners to HP. You get a big box and send 50 at once. Also you should be aware a lot of those toners include some other roll that has a limited life, which means you can’t recycle (or refill) them forever. But if you get toner from a bag you’d have to replace the roll separately anyway. This might be skewing your figures.

andrewia 4y ago

I think that's only for the Wi-Fi printing. The HP smart app is terrible and makes you sign up for features that work on a local network. I just visit my printer's internal web server with a desktop user agent to show the "remote scan" features. Printing over local Wi-Fi doesn't need the HP Smart app, just the HP print service plugin that doesn't require login (and also conveniently enables USB printing, if you want to use an OTG dongle with your phone).

macNchz 4y ago
My brand new HP laser printer literally won’t do anything until you use the app to set it up and agree to never disconnect it from the internet or use an unapproved cartridge. This is what the printer’s internal web server shows: https://pasteboard.co/L4AbwCTw7G3s.jpg https://pasteboard.co/L4AbwCTw7G3s.jpg

bayindirh 4y ago

> Requires the HP Smart app download. To be able to scan your documents to your phone directly. > Subscription may be required; subscription may not be available in all countries For some advanced, Prizmo-like scan features and OCR which are probably cloud based. > Get up to 5,000 pages or up to 2 years of pre-filled toner Considering printers at same size provides ~3000 pages, that's good. 2 years is probably printing n 5% filled office documents every day or so. > HP account required for full functionality. For HP smart app and web-based functionality (like mail2print) to work, not the printer. HP is still the best manufacturer which provides a complete driver stack which provides same quality printing in Linux. CUPS supports them in "driverless" fashion now, too. I use an old HP 4515 web printer, which is the first generation of these devices. Many embedded web features are deprecated (like printables), but it still works great as a wireless, mobile enabled MFP.

jonathantf2 4y ago
The last 3 HP LaserJets we've bought at work have had to go back because they require an HP account to print. You can't use port 9100 unless you've got an account, it just sits at an error state. No matter what we did you couldn't sign in, their cloud service seems to be down all the time and support wouldn't help.
- bayindirh 4y ago
  Strange. mine has an option called "Remove embedded web services", and it transforms to a dumb printer. Then you can re-enable it if you prefer later.
  - l8rlump 4y ago
    Embedded Web Services / EWS is their name for their web configuration interface. I don't think it has anything to do with GP's concerns. https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/ish_2029438-1929621-16 https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/ish_2029438-1929621-16
    - 4y ago

zepearl 4y ago

> ...or up to 2 years... How does that have to be interpreted? Will the printer request the toner to be changed after 2 years of ~inactivity or are they referring to the subscription? I bought a Kyocera about 10-15 years ago and one of its toner cartriges (CMYK) is still the original one... :P

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

broknbottle 4y ago

more like, the anti-consumer subscription based feature section. Two things are a sure thing post 2020, Covid and subscriptions.

cookiengineer 4y ago

Honestly, seing printers like this over the years and everything getting worse and worse makes me feel good about having an old Brother laser printer. It's monochrome, it's now 20 years old, but it's good enough for me. It keeps running and running, and the toner is dirt-cheap on the market. No internet, no spyware and no IoT-secured (tm) app required. Manufacturers like Epson and HP kind of force me into keeping this old thing alive when it eventually breaks down. I'm so glad we got CUPS and SANE as libraries. Without them, I would have to buy a newer model with current Windows support. The only thing that was missing in daily use is smartphone support, but an mDNS-SD service running on a little raspberry pi that shares the printer can fix that.

nopenopenopeno 4y ago
Mine is about 4 years old but same experience. Cheap to refill and works every time, even with Linux.
andix 4y ago
This is mostly still valid for current brother printers. I bought one last year, and the web interface looks exactly the same on the one I bought 15 years earlier. The only difference: it can do wifi now.
- mangix 4y ago
  AirPrint is also great.
  - andix 4y ago
    Funnily my old printer can already do air print. I think it came with an early firmware update.
- porbelm 4y ago
  When my boss needed a printer (to print out my contract for signing lol) a year and a half ago, he asked me what to get. The answer was, like always, a cheap b/w Brother -- since the LaserJet IIp is not in production any more. It's just like the workhorse in the old pub cellar that chugged out ream after ream of paper through the dust and moisture for years without breaking down. But with AirPrint too!

dboreham 4y ago

MBAs eating the world.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

hotcoffeebear 4y ago

HP already asks for a login for using their app to pront or scan, wtf HP? Anyway using NAPS2 for scanning on windows, on linux works out of the box, even better than on windows (how come?).