3 ms·

>I don't believe that the public can honestly expect them to act any differently so long as their behavior is in accordance with the law -- even if only technic

>I don't believe that the public can honestly expect them to act any differently so long as their behavior is in accordance with the law -- even if only technically, and even if the law should be changed. Corporations are composed of people, and I expect people to act morally. Laws are never going to properly capture morality, to put it another way legality is a weak indicator of morality. I humbly submit that it's not OK to be a sociopath in the service of a corporation, just because legally corporations are allowed to be sociopaths. People are just people, and should use their consciences.

Terretta 15y ago
Compositions of people are not individuals.
guelo 15y ago
Corporations' only moral code is greed. And I'm not talking abstractly, I've been part of discussions at companies where people adamantly say it is wrong to leave money on the table no matter what. The only time it is OK not to grab all money you can is if it might prevent the company from grabbing even more money in the future.
- ericd 15y ago
  The REALLY long term game is helping your country be prosperous so that you have an educated workforce to draw from and people and people and companies wealthy enough to pay high prices for your products. That requires a pretty pervasive altruistic/moral attitude to make it work, though... tragedy of the commons and all that, otherwise.
  - steve-howard 15y ago
    Try selling national prosperity to shareholders.
    - ericd 15y ago
      It works fine for the buy and hold crowd...
  - ahoyhere 15y ago
    You're right, ericd, but the vast majority of corporations (and shareholders, and lawmakers) are incapable of thinking beyond the next quarter earnings call.
    - ericd 15y ago
      Yeah, definitely aware that it's not realistic in the current environment (and it might not be realistic on a wide scale, period, given human nature). Just thinking aloud. Google is one of the few companies that I would say has stayed strongly principled and has taken a really long view on a lot of things. I think it's probably because the founders are principled and idealistic and are still at the helm, but also because they seem to have hired idealistic people from top to bottom. I wonder if it could ever be the case that a majority of companies were Googley.
bad_user 15y ago
While you are right that the people working for a corporation should act as human beings, not some kind of soulless aliens, the reality is a pretty simple one ... a corporation is a complex system in which the whole really is bigger than the sum of the parts. This complex system is goal oriented towards making more and more profits - and the trouble is Groupthink happens. Let me quote Wikipedia on this: the desire for harmony in a decision-making group overrides a realistic appraisal of alternatives That's right, it is in our nature to behave irrational as part of bigger groups, which sometimes makes people do completely stupid things ... how do you think group suicides are possible? And in corporations, because of inertia it is really hard for individuals inside it to steer it off the wrong path, especially since such individuals also have their own problems to worry about, like building a career or paying their monthly mortgage or paying for their child's private school. Instead, they end up getting assimilated in the hive-mind, which is a powerful force. Sometimes corporations do change drastically, but it starts from the top, most likely from the CEO. But not even a CEO can steer a company unless she's a force of nature, mostly because a CEO doesn't get elected unless she can promise ... more profits. Basically corporations are inherently evil and should be treated as such. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen and the only reasonable things that you can do as an individual is to (1) fight against such legislation + (2) vote with your wallet. And I don't know what other people will do about SOPA, but my intent is to not pay for music ever again. Fuck iTunes. And even though I have a monthly habit of going to my local movie theater, I'll never again rent or pay for a home movie again. I work too hard for my money and the RIAA and MPAA of the world can kiss my ass.
metachris 15y ago
Of course somebody will counter-argue with the legal obligation to their shareholders, yadda yadda.

Terretta 15y ago

Compositions of people are not individuals.

guelo 15y ago

Corporations' only moral code is greed. And I'm not talking abstractly, I've been part of discussions at companies where people adamantly say it is wrong to leave money on the table no matter what. The only time it is OK not to grab all money you can is if it might prevent the company from grabbing even more money in the future.

ericd 15y ago
The REALLY long term game is helping your country be prosperous so that you have an educated workforce to draw from and people and people and companies wealthy enough to pay high prices for your products. That requires a pretty pervasive altruistic/moral attitude to make it work, though... tragedy of the commons and all that, otherwise.
- steve-howard 15y ago
  Try selling national prosperity to shareholders.
  - ericd 15y ago
    It works fine for the buy and hold crowd...
- ahoyhere 15y ago
  You're right, ericd, but the vast majority of corporations (and shareholders, and lawmakers) are incapable of thinking beyond the next quarter earnings call.
  - ericd 15y ago
    Yeah, definitely aware that it's not realistic in the current environment (and it might not be realistic on a wide scale, period, given human nature). Just thinking aloud. Google is one of the few companies that I would say has stayed strongly principled and has taken a really long view on a lot of things. I think it's probably because the founders are principled and idealistic and are still at the helm, but also because they seem to have hired idealistic people from top to bottom. I wonder if it could ever be the case that a majority of companies were Googley.

bad_user 15y ago

While you are right that the people working for a corporation should act as human beings, not some kind of soulless aliens, the reality is a pretty simple one ... a corporation is a complex system in which the whole really is bigger than the sum of the parts. This complex system is goal oriented towards making more and more profits - and the trouble is Groupthink happens. Let me quote Wikipedia on this: the desire for harmony in a decision-making group overrides a realistic appraisal of alternatives That's right, it is in our nature to behave irrational as part of bigger groups, which sometimes makes people do completely stupid things ... how do you think group suicides are possible? And in corporations, because of inertia it is really hard for individuals inside it to steer it off the wrong path, especially since such individuals also have their own problems to worry about, like building a career or paying their monthly mortgage or paying for their child's private school. Instead, they end up getting assimilated in the hive-mind, which is a powerful force. Sometimes corporations do change drastically, but it starts from the top, most likely from the CEO. But not even a CEO can steer a company unless she's a force of nature, mostly because a CEO doesn't get elected unless she can promise ... more profits. Basically corporations are inherently evil and should be treated as such. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen and the only reasonable things that you can do as an individual is to (1) fight against such legislation + (2) vote with your wallet. And I don't know what other people will do about SOPA, but my intent is to not pay for music ever again. Fuck iTunes. And even though I have a monthly habit of going to my local movie theater, I'll never again rent or pay for a home movie again. I work too hard for my money and the RIAA and MPAA of the world can kiss my ass.

metachris 15y ago

Of course somebody will counter-argue with the legal obligation to their shareholders, yadda yadda.