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I'm happy for the author if this works for them, but I fear this feeds into the ongoing narrative that being a night owl is somehow a negative (or "lazy"). Eve

I'm happy for the author if this works for them, but I fear this feeds into the ongoing narrative that being a night owl is somehow a negative (or "lazy"). Everyone has a natural sleep schedule, or chronotype. Instead of forcing ("tricking" in the author's words) yourself into an earlier pattern just because of the expectations of those around you, or the idea that being early is universally more productive, it’s often better to just let yourself be a night owl.

koinedad 4y ago
I think that’s helpful to point out, I just can’t go into the night like I used to so shifting to morning has really been a game changer
- theonething 4y ago
  Your statement supports the GP's point, just go with what works for you.
zozbot234 4y ago
It's not a negative, it's just different. You're choosing more time and energy in the late evening and night, with the trade off being less energy and more trouble getting up in the morning. Most people with rigid work schedules (and not working on a night shift) would rather pick the opposite, however. The cultural aversion to a "night owl" shedule is pretty obvious though given the historical importance of farming and animal husbandry, which are dependent on the daily cycle.
watwut 4y ago
The people that he's rewarded in work are the one staying late. If you come early you don't get reward. It is just that narrative of early people being rewarded more does not hold up to anything I see around. It is working lage everyone wants to see
r_hoods_ghost 4y ago
Contra this, people's chronotypes change as they get older with people (on average) becoming more early birdish as they age. I think a lot of people struggle to recognise this and try to force themselves to continue to be night owls as they age, even though they would actually fare better if they started getting up early. I speak as someone who has gone from rarely going to bed before 2am when I was a yoof, to being someone who considers 6am to be a luxurious lie in. But I'm also dead on my feet by 10pm!
- karamanolev 4y ago
  In the last 10-15 years, I've moved from a 2am - 11am sleep cycle to 12pm - 8:30am, so that tracks for me too. And I'm definitely not trying to force myself in either direction.
  - andyexeter 4y ago
    Assuming you mean 12am here? Or do you really sleep for 18.5 hours per day?
- cybrexalpha 4y ago
  I don't dissagree. I think it's fine to accept changing chronotypes as you age.
lm28469 4y ago
> Everyone has a natural sleep schedule, or chronotype. It depends on how you define "natural", virtually nobody stayed up so late before the invention of electricity, screens and especially internet. People just got used to this unnatural cycle, do it long enough and you'll think that's how your body is supposed to work
- karamanolev 4y ago
  I remember that to be false, and just looking it up online: In prehistoric times, night owls could keep watch and protect their tribes from nocturnal predators, and in ancient times, they could protect their cities from conquerors trying to sneak in at night. There was an evolutionary benefit to having both morning larks and night owls within our species.
- shakna 4y ago
  Depends when you're talking in history. It used to be normal not to have a day/night cycle, but a split of three. So that you would wake up to stoke the fire. So, no, people did stay up very late before the invention of electricity. Humans adapt extremely well to their circumstances. You can obviously push it too far, but adaptation itself is natural.
- jjk166 4y ago
  People have been doing things at night forever. In studies of hunter-gatherer societies, they actually sleep less than in modern societies, and it's actually temperature (and more specifically the rate of variation) more than light that controls peoples sleep cycles. On average they go to sleep about 3 hours after sunset and use that time for activities like cooking and tool making. Some groups studied woke a little before and some a little after sunrise.
  - lm28469 4y ago
    > On average they go to sleep about 3 hours after sunset and use that time for activities like cooking and tool making. Go for a two week long hiking/camping trip and you'll see what's natural, you'll be fast asleep by 10 and awake at 7 every single day. Most people calling themselves night owls just artificially keep themselves awake thanks to screens, what's the "tool builders" to "mindless media consumers" ration these days ? They're too lazy to fix their schedule or too oblivious to the damage they inflict themselves, I can guarantee you people went to bed much earlier even 60 years ago compared to today
telesilla 4y ago
I can stay up late but I'm not productive. If I wake up at 5.30am I'm productive within 15 minutes and have a couple of hours before being bothered by family, co-workers etc. I must have a siesta however, and organise my life to allow this. I wish siesta was far more accepted above sleeping late or rising early.

koinedad 4y ago

I think that’s helpful to point out, I just can’t go into the night like I used to so shifting to morning has really been a game changer

theonething 4y ago
Your statement supports the GP's point, just go with what works for you.

zozbot234 4y ago

It's not a negative, it's just different. You're choosing more time and energy in the late evening and night, with the trade off being less energy and more trouble getting up in the morning. Most people with rigid work schedules (and not working on a night shift) would rather pick the opposite, however. The cultural aversion to a "night owl" shedule is pretty obvious though given the historical importance of farming and animal husbandry, which are dependent on the daily cycle.

watwut 4y ago

The people that he's rewarded in work are the one staying late. If you come early you don't get reward. It is just that narrative of early people being rewarded more does not hold up to anything I see around. It is working lage everyone wants to see

r_hoods_ghost 4y ago

Contra this, people's chronotypes change as they get older with people (on average) becoming more early birdish as they age. I think a lot of people struggle to recognise this and try to force themselves to continue to be night owls as they age, even though they would actually fare better if they started getting up early. I speak as someone who has gone from rarely going to bed before 2am when I was a yoof, to being someone who considers 6am to be a luxurious lie in. But I'm also dead on my feet by 10pm!

karamanolev 4y ago
In the last 10-15 years, I've moved from a 2am - 11am sleep cycle to 12pm - 8:30am, so that tracks for me too. And I'm definitely not trying to force myself in either direction.
- andyexeter 4y ago
  Assuming you mean 12am here? Or do you really sleep for 18.5 hours per day?
cybrexalpha 4y ago
I don't dissagree. I think it's fine to accept changing chronotypes as you age.

lm28469 4y ago

> Everyone has a natural sleep schedule, or chronotype. It depends on how you define "natural", virtually nobody stayed up so late before the invention of electricity, screens and especially internet. People just got used to this unnatural cycle, do it long enough and you'll think that's how your body is supposed to work

karamanolev 4y ago
I remember that to be false, and just looking it up online: In prehistoric times, night owls could keep watch and protect their tribes from nocturnal predators, and in ancient times, they could protect their cities from conquerors trying to sneak in at night. There was an evolutionary benefit to having both morning larks and night owls within our species.
shakna 4y ago
Depends when you're talking in history. It used to be normal not to have a day/night cycle, but a split of three. So that you would wake up to stoke the fire. So, no, people did stay up very late before the invention of electricity. Humans adapt extremely well to their circumstances. You can obviously push it too far, but adaptation itself is natural.
jjk166 4y ago
People have been doing things at night forever. In studies of hunter-gatherer societies, they actually sleep less than in modern societies, and it's actually temperature (and more specifically the rate of variation) more than light that controls peoples sleep cycles. On average they go to sleep about 3 hours after sunset and use that time for activities like cooking and tool making. Some groups studied woke a little before and some a little after sunrise.
- lm28469 4y ago
  > On average they go to sleep about 3 hours after sunset and use that time for activities like cooking and tool making. Go for a two week long hiking/camping trip and you'll see what's natural, you'll be fast asleep by 10 and awake at 7 every single day. Most people calling themselves night owls just artificially keep themselves awake thanks to screens, what's the "tool builders" to "mindless media consumers" ration these days ? They're too lazy to fix their schedule or too oblivious to the damage they inflict themselves, I can guarantee you people went to bed much earlier even 60 years ago compared to today

telesilla 4y ago

I can stay up late but I'm not productive. If I wake up at 5.30am I'm productive within 15 minutes and have a couple of hours before being bothered by family, co-workers etc. I must have a siesta however, and organise my life to allow this. I wish siesta was far more accepted above sleeping late or rising early.