4 ms·

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Whether it's intentional or not, voting in the US is not always easy for several reasons... 1 - No national election day

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Whether it's intentional or not, voting in the US is not always easy for several reasons... 1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. 2 - Long lines, too few voting stations, exacerbate point 1 3 - Inconsistent voting laws as you cross municipal boundaries (mostly state to state). 3b - particularly WRT mail-in/absentee ballots. 4 - constant undermining of the voting system as a whole by the GOP. This has really ramped up in the last ~8 years, but it's been there much longer. The first 3 are more likely to impact poorer citizens, who are also more likely to rent their homes. We'd do well as a country to allow nationwide mail-in voting.

jimbob45 4y ago
1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. PSA: You can register as a poll worker and work election day to guarantee you have time to vote. There's a high chance that your work will give you the time off to go work as a poll worker without it eating into your PTO (and you get paid to boot!).
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  > There's a high chance that your work will give you the time off to go work as a poll worker without it eating into your PTO (and you get paid to boot!). As an ex-linecook, LOL, there are too many assumptions baked in here to be in the realm of reality for working class jobs
- Loughla 4y ago
  Holy cow, not even a little bit. This is so, so middle- to upper-middle income centered it's not even funny. 1st you are assuming people have one employer to worry about, not multiple. 2nd you are assuming people have a set schedule daily or weekly. 3rd you are assuming people have PTO. 4th you are assuming the employer will give any amount of shit about volunteerism. 5th you are assuming they won't be given a point or docked for missing a shift.
  - valarauko 4y ago
    I'm curious as to what the solution in this case is then. If election days were holidays, wouldn't the same people still have the same issues with employers? Do shift workers not work on holidays?
    - alistairSH 4y ago
      This is why I suggested nationwide mail-in voting as a solution. A national holiday might help some workers, but not all. Gas stations still need staffed, etc.
      - valarauko 4y ago
        Realistically, how would that work for these same group of people? They'd have to know well in advance that they would need postal ballots and complete and return them in advance of election day. Would shift workers working multiple jobs be best served by mail-in voting? tbf I'm not sure if there is a better way, but it seems relying on mail-in ballots helps some people and alienates a different group of people.
        alistairSH 4y ago
        I was imagining the ballots would be auto-shipped based on voter rolls (which get updated with DMV records in many states - this should also be mandatory). So, check mail box as normal. Receive ballot. Research candidates (or not) and fill out. Drop in the mailbox. Not much different than paying paper bills. Who were you imagining would be alienated by mail-in voting? We could do mandatory extended timeframe/hours in-person voting but that costs a lot more (paying to staff the sites, rent locations because you can't just borrow a school cafeteria for a day like we do now, etc).
        valarauko 4y ago
        Are you suggesting mail-in ballots as a universal option that covers everybody? That seems unfeasible logistically. Does any large country offer universal mail-in ballots? I think mail-in ballots best serve voters in an environment where they are the norm, rather than the exception. For example, the campaign cycles, like debates, that target the large segment of undecided voters right before election day. The mail-in voter has to be more informed about candidates and policy than an average voter to come to an equivalent informed decision about their vote weeks before the average voter. Yes, if the goal is to simply increase voter turnout, universal mail-in ballots are probably great. I wonder if that best serves the voter, though - hence my question. My familiarity is with the Indian electoral system, which is highly regarded (at least within the country). Mail-in ballots are an option for a subset of people, but they make up for it by making polling booths readily accessible - your booth is just a short walk away. Election days are holidays, but I'm sure it still impacts workers in similar ways. Still, voter turnout is usually not too bad. Expanding mail-in voting has been discussed as an option for the very large floating population of migrant workers, but we don't have a solution yet. The logistics of offering universal mail-in ballots for a country approaching 1.4 billion is daunting. Already, the General Elections need to be spaced out over several weeks to allow electoral officials and poll workers to cover the entire country.
doliveira 4y ago
Election day not being a holiday in the USA is weird
- rjbwork 4y ago
  No it's not. From the start the US was intended to be oligarchical - hence the franchise originally only being extended to white landowning males. There has always been a strain of politics dedicated to keeping barriers up to enfranchisement.
- lesuorac 4y ago
  I dunno, having election day be a holiday seems like a poor solution as plenty of people do work holidays and probably the same people who have trouble finding time to vote. Mostly, I don't think we should be encouraging a ton of people to all show up at the same place at the same time. That's just asking for long lines and other issues. I think it'd be much better to just drag voting out of the course of a month and actually encourage people to not show up on election day. Or to just vote by mail more, I haven't been a poll since I was a child (and back then we had levers!) but from what I hear now half the time you're just filling out a mail ballet in person now.
  - doliveira 4y ago
    > plenty of people do work holidays and probably the same people who have trouble finding time to vote It's a country with 300 million people, there's plenty of people for anything. I'd wager that in percentual terms, the absolute majority would benefit from an election day holiday.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Not being able to vote electronically is also really weird since ballots are only paper at the edge. Yes there are downsides, just like when you mail-in you give up non-repudiation, but the fact that it's not even an option is crazy. I personally would be more than happy to give up my personal ability to vote anonymously if I meant I could just sign up for a vote.gov account at the BMV, login, vote and be done with it.
coryrc 4y ago
Then why does Washington state also have low voter participation? Nine of that applies to a Democratic-run state with mail-in-only voting.
- lesuorac 4y ago
  [Citation needed] From what I see WA had a turnout of 75% compared to USA's 66%. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h_2pR1pq8s_I5buZ5agXS9q1vLziECztN2uWeR6Czo0/edit#gid=2030096602 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h_2pR1pq8s_I5buZ5agX...
  - coryrc 4y ago
    You're cherry-picking the most interesting election of the last five years. The recent primary was ~38% turnout. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/which-wa-counties-saw-highest-voter-turnout-in-2022-primary-election/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/which-wa-...
    - lesuorac 4y ago
      Ok, so WA had 38% turnout for a primary so what? The whole point is that you need to compare it to other states to make any sense of the data. Arkansas had <26% (457,856 votes / 1,762,024 registered voters) [1]. 38% is looking pretty good. [1]: https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/AR/112731/web.285569/#/summary https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/AR/112731/web.28556...
      - coryrc 4y ago
        > The whole point is that you need to compare it to other states to make any sense of the data I disagree with your assertion. Even so, alistairSH's conclusion: "We'd do well as a country to allow nationwide mail-in voting." like it was solution to solving lack of voting from renters, when cherry-picking data gets us 12 points at best. It might be part of a solution, but it's demonstrably not a majority difference. All this presumes every possible vote is equally valid.

jimbob45 4y ago

1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. PSA: You can register as a poll worker and work election day to guarantee you have time to vote. There's a high chance that your work will give you the time off to go work as a poll worker without it eating into your PTO (and you get paid to boot!).

PuppyTailWags 4y ago
> There's a high chance that your work will give you the time off to go work as a poll worker without it eating into your PTO (and you get paid to boot!). As an ex-linecook, LOL, there are too many assumptions baked in here to be in the realm of reality for working class jobs
Loughla 4y ago
Holy cow, not even a little bit. This is so, so middle- to upper-middle income centered it's not even funny. 1st you are assuming people have one employer to worry about, not multiple. 2nd you are assuming people have a set schedule daily or weekly. 3rd you are assuming people have PTO. 4th you are assuming the employer will give any amount of shit about volunteerism. 5th you are assuming they won't be given a point or docked for missing a shift.
- valarauko 4y ago
  I'm curious as to what the solution in this case is then. If election days were holidays, wouldn't the same people still have the same issues with employers? Do shift workers not work on holidays?
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    This is why I suggested nationwide mail-in voting as a solution. A national holiday might help some workers, but not all. Gas stations still need staffed, etc.
    - valarauko 4y ago
      Realistically, how would that work for these same group of people? They'd have to know well in advance that they would need postal ballots and complete and return them in advance of election day. Would shift workers working multiple jobs be best served by mail-in voting? tbf I'm not sure if there is a better way, but it seems relying on mail-in ballots helps some people and alienates a different group of people.
      - alistairSH 4y ago
        I was imagining the ballots would be auto-shipped based on voter rolls (which get updated with DMV records in many states - this should also be mandatory). So, check mail box as normal. Receive ballot. Research candidates (or not) and fill out. Drop in the mailbox. Not much different than paying paper bills. Who were you imagining would be alienated by mail-in voting? We could do mandatory extended timeframe/hours in-person voting but that costs a lot more (paying to staff the sites, rent locations because you can't just borrow a school cafeteria for a day like we do now, etc).
        valarauko 4y ago
        Are you suggesting mail-in ballots as a universal option that covers everybody? That seems unfeasible logistically. Does any large country offer universal mail-in ballots? I think mail-in ballots best serve voters in an environment where they are the norm, rather than the exception. For example, the campaign cycles, like debates, that target the large segment of undecided voters right before election day. The mail-in voter has to be more informed about candidates and policy than an average voter to come to an equivalent informed decision about their vote weeks before the average voter. Yes, if the goal is to simply increase voter turnout, universal mail-in ballots are probably great. I wonder if that best serves the voter, though - hence my question. My familiarity is with the Indian electoral system, which is highly regarded (at least within the country). Mail-in ballots are an option for a subset of people, but they make up for it by making polling booths readily accessible - your booth is just a short walk away. Election days are holidays, but I'm sure it still impacts workers in similar ways. Still, voter turnout is usually not too bad. Expanding mail-in voting has been discussed as an option for the very large floating population of migrant workers, but we don't have a solution yet. The logistics of offering universal mail-in ballots for a country approaching 1.4 billion is daunting. Already, the General Elections need to be spaced out over several weeks to allow electoral officials and poll workers to cover the entire country.

doliveira 4y ago

Election day not being a holiday in the USA is weird

rjbwork 4y ago
No it's not. From the start the US was intended to be oligarchical - hence the franchise originally only being extended to white landowning males. There has always been a strain of politics dedicated to keeping barriers up to enfranchisement.
lesuorac 4y ago
I dunno, having election day be a holiday seems like a poor solution as plenty of people do work holidays and probably the same people who have trouble finding time to vote. Mostly, I don't think we should be encouraging a ton of people to all show up at the same place at the same time. That's just asking for long lines and other issues. I think it'd be much better to just drag voting out of the course of a month and actually encourage people to not show up on election day. Or to just vote by mail more, I haven't been a poll since I was a child (and back then we had levers!) but from what I hear now half the time you're just filling out a mail ballet in person now.
- doliveira 4y ago
  > plenty of people do work holidays and probably the same people who have trouble finding time to vote It's a country with 300 million people, there's plenty of people for anything. I'd wager that in percentual terms, the absolute majority would benefit from an election day holiday.
Spivak 4y ago
Not being able to vote electronically is also really weird since ballots are only paper at the edge. Yes there are downsides, just like when you mail-in you give up non-repudiation, but the fact that it's not even an option is crazy. I personally would be more than happy to give up my personal ability to vote anonymously if I meant I could just sign up for a vote.gov account at the BMV, login, vote and be done with it.

coryrc 4y ago

Then why does Washington state also have low voter participation? Nine of that applies to a Democratic-run state with mail-in-only voting.

lesuorac 4y ago
[Citation needed] From what I see WA had a turnout of 75% compared to USA's 66%. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h_2pR1pq8s_I5buZ5agXS9q1vLziECztN2uWeR6Czo0/edit#gid=2030096602 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h_2pR1pq8s_I5buZ5agX...
- coryrc 4y ago
  You're cherry-picking the most interesting election of the last five years. The recent primary was ~38% turnout. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/which-wa-counties-saw-highest-voter-turnout-in-2022-primary-election/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/which-wa-...
  - lesuorac 4y ago
    Ok, so WA had 38% turnout for a primary so what? The whole point is that you need to compare it to other states to make any sense of the data. Arkansas had <26% (457,856 votes / 1,762,024 registered voters) [1]. 38% is looking pretty good. [1]: https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/AR/112731/web.285569/#/summary https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/AR/112731/web.28556...
    - coryrc 4y ago
      > The whole point is that you need to compare it to other states to make any sense of the data I disagree with your assertion. Even so, alistairSH's conclusion: "We'd do well as a country to allow nationwide mail-in voting." like it was solution to solving lack of voting from renters, when cherry-picking data gets us 12 points at best. It might be part of a solution, but it's demonstrably not a majority difference. All this presumes every possible vote is equally valid.