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> an example he gave was for most people writing software, they are in the factory in a chair w/ a laptop beside the cars Sounds like he is making things up. C

> an example he gave was for most people writing software, they are in the factory in a chair w/ a laptop beside the cars Sounds like he is making things up. Coding next to a car is pretty specious.

jollyllama 4y ago
How so? If your code is going onto a car, why wouldn't you just load it on one directly to test it out?
- hef19898 4y ago
  In a test environment? Sure. At the shop floor? Either constant bug fixing, no automated flashing or bad planning. Or all of the above.
  - abledon 4y ago
    > "What if its software? Whats the machine [you need to be by...]" https://youtu.be/mvBHS4-4OEk?t=1842 https://youtu.be/mvBHS4-4OEk?t=1842
    - jollyllama 4y ago
      >swarm, pair, mob >the goal is to do it within touching distance of the machine He's right about this. I've worked at places like this. It's very effective if you don't have extensive test and simulation infrastructure. You can say it's a bad practice, or a bad work environment, and you may be right. My point is, many places work like this.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  So test in production? I can't figure out if you're not a programmer or just a typical programer.
  - jollyllama 4y ago
    Best practices aren't always adhered to everywhere 100% of the time. And a lot of the time, stuff still works. Edit: many places don't have perfect simulation setups, test infrastructure, etc. Sometimes you just have to test on a real product.
- Matthias247 4y ago
  That’s like „sitting next to a server in a datacenter to write backend software“ - nobody does that. Maybe they worked on factory automation software and Workflows - then it makes sense. But for normal software development you do it in an office or a lab with all hardware components you need attached to a test bed and others simulated. Then once in a while some release software will be flashes on a prototype car and taken for a test drive. But not on any arbitrary car leaving the factory. There are strict regulations about prototype cars. Source: Worked 10 years on automotive software at a car manufacturer (not Tesla)
  - jollyllama 4y ago
    "sitting next to a server in a datacenter to write backend software" Again, I've worked places where people do this. More precisely it was storage array software, but we had an onsite datacenter and people were live dev-testing redundancy capabilities, etc. I think I just gravitate to workplaces where I have some physical access to the systems I'm writing code for.
  - 2rsf 4y ago
    I worked less on automotive software at a Swedish vehicle manufacturer, most of the work was done in office environments and tested on emulators and simulators but it was definitely not rare to sit for days in a vehicle and tweak the software.
abledon 4y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvBHS4-4OEk&t=1040s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvBHS4-4OEk&t=1040s "You are doing hard work... there is no white-collar/blue-collar, its not a thing"

> an example he gave was for most people writing software, they are in the factory in a chair w/ a laptop beside the cars Sounds like he is making things up. Coding next to a car is pretty specious.

jollyllama 4y ago

How so? If your code is going onto a car, why wouldn't you just load it on one directly to test it out?

hef19898 4y ago
In a test environment? Sure. At the shop floor? Either constant bug fixing, no automated flashing or bad planning. Or all of the above.
- abledon 4y ago
  > "What if its software? Whats the machine [you need to be by...]" https://youtu.be/mvBHS4-4OEk?t=1842 https://youtu.be/mvBHS4-4OEk?t=1842
  - jollyllama 4y ago
    >swarm, pair, mob >the goal is to do it within touching distance of the machine He's right about this. I've worked at places like this. It's very effective if you don't have extensive test and simulation infrastructure. You can say it's a bad practice, or a bad work environment, and you may be right. My point is, many places work like this.
dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
So test in production? I can't figure out if you're not a programmer or just a typical programer.
- jollyllama 4y ago
  Best practices aren't always adhered to everywhere 100% of the time. And a lot of the time, stuff still works. Edit: many places don't have perfect simulation setups, test infrastructure, etc. Sometimes you just have to test on a real product.
Matthias247 4y ago
That’s like „sitting next to a server in a datacenter to write backend software“ - nobody does that. Maybe they worked on factory automation software and Workflows - then it makes sense. But for normal software development you do it in an office or a lab with all hardware components you need attached to a test bed and others simulated. Then once in a while some release software will be flashes on a prototype car and taken for a test drive. But not on any arbitrary car leaving the factory. There are strict regulations about prototype cars. Source: Worked 10 years on automotive software at a car manufacturer (not Tesla)
- jollyllama 4y ago
  "sitting next to a server in a datacenter to write backend software" Again, I've worked places where people do this. More precisely it was storage array software, but we had an onsite datacenter and people were live dev-testing redundancy capabilities, etc. I think I just gravitate to workplaces where I have some physical access to the systems I'm writing code for.
- 2rsf 4y ago
  I worked less on automotive software at a Swedish vehicle manufacturer, most of the work was done in office environments and tested on emulators and simulators but it was definitely not rare to sit for days in a vehicle and tweak the software.

abledon 4y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvBHS4-4OEk&t=1040s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvBHS4-4OEk&t=1040s "You are doing hard work... there is no white-collar/blue-collar, its not a thing"