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There are alot of videos on youtube by ex-tesla agile consultant/teacher/lead 'joe justice' which go into how Tesla factories operate. Its all in the factory...

There are alot of videos on youtube by ex-tesla agile consultant/teacher/lead 'joe justice' which go into how Tesla factories operate. Its all in the factory... an example he gave was for most people writing software, they are in the factory in a chair w/ a laptop beside the cars. Edit: as someone pointed out, he was a consultant who worked for a short period. nonetheless, I still think the videos are quite eye opening to how they operate day-to-day (while navigating around NDA in explanations).

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
I understand dogfooding and ensuring your developers feel the users pain, but this ain't that. I don't know what this, but it doesn't seem conducive to being able to write quality code.
sschueller 4y ago
This guy was at Tesla for less than 2 months (according to his linked-in profile) yet he starts every video that he is an ex-Tesla employee. Where I live you generally have a 3 month probation period and I don't think anyone who leaves within that period would even write this in their CV.
- jsty 4y ago
  > I don't think anyone who leaves within that period would even write this in their CV Oh that's interesting, I'd have taken the opposite view - that having a 2 month gap on your CV would be interpreted by most HR depts as worse than explaining a 2-month job as "not a good fit" Edit: I guess I should clarify that I don't see gaps in CVs as a bad thing, but from personal experience I know some HR depts have an irrational fear of them.
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    If you think having a 2-month gap in employment on your resume is “bad”, you have not been in the workforce very long.
    - jsty 4y ago
      Oh I don't think it's bad at all, just that in a toss up between the two it'd be better to include it - particularly given the chance of it being brought up in interviews. Having to then admit there's another employment you didn't include might not be the best optics.
      - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
        I guess I have to state the obvious: you won’t get questioned during an interview about a two-month gap on your resume. If you do, I would question the interviewers intentions and run , far away from him.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    If a hiring department takes issue with a 2 month gap in a resume, I'd be worried about what that says about working for that company and whatever other ridiculous things they believe. A 2 month gap is nothing. Like, maybe an extended holiday or a quick refresh between jobs. If I leave a job, take a few weeks for myself, then start handing out resumes at that point... It could easily be 2 months before an interview is lined up somewhere. I personally don't think any length of gap in a resume is the business of a hiring department. There are hundreds of legitimate reasons that someone took a few months or even a year or two off (e.g. extended travel, children, caretaking of someone sick/elderly/whatever, etc.). In a lot of cases, the reason for the gap might be super personal (health, death of family, etc.) and really not anyone else's concern. And I'd rather not work at a place where they think a 2 month gap is something they need to worry about -- if I can do the job, I can do the job regardless of my employment status 2 months ago.
- shmatt 4y ago
  Not the same exactly but this really rubs me the wrong way about Gergely Orosz. He was an EM (not even Senior) at Uber, overall tenure of 4 years. Left 2 years ago. But writes about the place like he was some SVP or CTO There were literally hundreds of people who had a better view of the org than him
  - itsoktocry 4y ago
    >overall tenure of 4 years I'm not familiar with his writing, but you can learn a hell of a lot about the internal workings in your company in four years.
    - recursv_thnkng 4y ago
      Especially at FAANG and those (ex)Unicorn type of companies. Overall employee tenure is never high since initial stock offerings fall off around the 4 year mark. This creates a lot of opportunity to learn the ins and outs just out of necessity.
  - PragmaticPulp 4y ago
    I like the idea of his newsletter (engineer turned journalist) but it often falls short of expectations for the reason you mentioned: Overselling his own experience and exaggerating the sourcing of his information. Most of his Big Tech reporting reduces to “I asked someone who worked at this company and they said this”. He even had to retract a big claim recently because it turned out to be entirely untrue. His newsletter makes more sense when you read about how he considers it his most successful business after a long string of startups that didn’t work out. He’s basically growth hacking his way to more subscribers with every trick in the book.
    - rtpg 4y ago
      Hate to break it to you but almost all journalism is “we asked some people questions” I don’t know what claim you mention, but his newsletter goes into lots of details, is open about how this is just what he is hearing from people, etc. I don’t know what major claim you’re talking about though, but I do get your point about the business angle. Tho honestly I would not trust any SVP at a company like Uber to have an understanding of what it’s actually like to be an IC, or PM level. Hearing what people at that level are thinking is way more valuable to me.
- moomoo11 4y ago
  That’s about as bad as people who take a single non actual degree related course from Harvard or MIT and then put that as their primary education on LinkedIn to get more views.
ModernMech 4y ago
Managers have been wanting to treat developers as assembly line workers since forever. It harkens back to the promise of object oriented programming — that if the interfaces were well defined upfront then development would be reduced to just implementing the code while conforming to the interface. Of course, that never worked because software development is a fundamentally creative and iterative process, so the assembly line model is doomed to fail every time.
zionic 4y ago
>Agile leader _sigh_. I can't even tell if this is satire anymore.
- abledon 4y ago
  i didn't mean "Industry Leader", but simply, leading efforts of Agile at Tesla. sorry for the confusion :) https://youtu.be/Q8_PnAIbQJE?t=269 https://youtu.be/Q8_PnAIbQJE?t=269
dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
> an example he gave was for most people writing software, they are in the factory in a chair w/ a laptop beside the cars Sounds like he is making things up. Coding next to a car is pretty specious.
- jollyllama 4y ago
  How so? If your code is going onto a car, why wouldn't you just load it on one directly to test it out?
  - hef19898 4y ago
    In a test environment? Sure. At the shop floor? Either constant bug fixing, no automated flashing or bad planning. Or all of the above.
    - abledon 4y ago
      > "What if its software? Whats the machine [you need to be by...]" https://youtu.be/mvBHS4-4OEk?t=1842 https://youtu.be/mvBHS4-4OEk?t=1842
      - jollyllama 4y ago
        >swarm, pair, mob >the goal is to do it within touching distance of the machine He's right about this. I've worked at places like this. It's very effective if you don't have extensive test and simulation infrastructure. You can say it's a bad practice, or a bad work environment, and you may be right. My point is, many places work like this.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
    So test in production? I can't figure out if you're not a programmer or just a typical programer.
    - jollyllama 4y ago

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago

I understand dogfooding and ensuring your developers feel the users pain, but this ain't that. I don't know what this, but it doesn't seem conducive to being able to write quality code.

sschueller 4y ago

This guy was at Tesla for less than 2 months (according to his linked-in profile) yet he starts every video that he is an ex-Tesla employee. Where I live you generally have a 3 month probation period and I don't think anyone who leaves within that period would even write this in their CV.

jsty 4y ago
> I don't think anyone who leaves within that period would even write this in their CV Oh that's interesting, I'd have taken the opposite view - that having a 2 month gap on your CV would be interpreted by most HR depts as worse than explaining a 2-month job as "not a good fit" Edit: I guess I should clarify that I don't see gaps in CVs as a bad thing, but from personal experience I know some HR depts have an irrational fear of them.
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  If you think having a 2-month gap in employment on your resume is “bad”, you have not been in the workforce very long.
  - jsty 4y ago
    Oh I don't think it's bad at all, just that in a toss up between the two it'd be better to include it - particularly given the chance of it being brought up in interviews. Having to then admit there's another employment you didn't include might not be the best optics.
    - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
      I guess I have to state the obvious: you won’t get questioned during an interview about a two-month gap on your resume. If you do, I would question the interviewers intentions and run , far away from him.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ziddoap 4y ago
  If a hiring department takes issue with a 2 month gap in a resume, I'd be worried about what that says about working for that company and whatever other ridiculous things they believe. A 2 month gap is nothing. Like, maybe an extended holiday or a quick refresh between jobs. If I leave a job, take a few weeks for myself, then start handing out resumes at that point... It could easily be 2 months before an interview is lined up somewhere. I personally don't think any length of gap in a resume is the business of a hiring department. There are hundreds of legitimate reasons that someone took a few months or even a year or two off (e.g. extended travel, children, caretaking of someone sick/elderly/whatever, etc.). In a lot of cases, the reason for the gap might be super personal (health, death of family, etc.) and really not anyone else's concern. And I'd rather not work at a place where they think a 2 month gap is something they need to worry about -- if I can do the job, I can do the job regardless of my employment status 2 months ago.
shmatt 4y ago
Not the same exactly but this really rubs me the wrong way about Gergely Orosz. He was an EM (not even Senior) at Uber, overall tenure of 4 years. Left 2 years ago. But writes about the place like he was some SVP or CTO There were literally hundreds of people who had a better view of the org than him
- itsoktocry 4y ago
  >overall tenure of 4 years I'm not familiar with his writing, but you can learn a hell of a lot about the internal workings in your company in four years.
  - recursv_thnkng 4y ago
    Especially at FAANG and those (ex)Unicorn type of companies. Overall employee tenure is never high since initial stock offerings fall off around the 4 year mark. This creates a lot of opportunity to learn the ins and outs just out of necessity.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  I like the idea of his newsletter (engineer turned journalist) but it often falls short of expectations for the reason you mentioned: Overselling his own experience and exaggerating the sourcing of his information. Most of his Big Tech reporting reduces to “I asked someone who worked at this company and they said this”. He even had to retract a big claim recently because it turned out to be entirely untrue. His newsletter makes more sense when you read about how he considers it his most successful business after a long string of startups that didn’t work out. He’s basically growth hacking his way to more subscribers with every trick in the book.
  - rtpg 4y ago
    Hate to break it to you but almost all journalism is “we asked some people questions” I don’t know what claim you mention, but his newsletter goes into lots of details, is open about how this is just what he is hearing from people, etc. I don’t know what major claim you’re talking about though, but I do get your point about the business angle. Tho honestly I would not trust any SVP at a company like Uber to have an understanding of what it’s actually like to be an IC, or PM level. Hearing what people at that level are thinking is way more valuable to me.
moomoo11 4y ago
That’s about as bad as people who take a single non actual degree related course from Harvard or MIT and then put that as their primary education on LinkedIn to get more views.

ModernMech 4y ago

Managers have been wanting to treat developers as assembly line workers since forever. It harkens back to the promise of object oriented programming — that if the interfaces were well defined upfront then development would be reduced to just implementing the code while conforming to the interface. Of course, that never worked because software development is a fundamentally creative and iterative process, so the assembly line model is doomed to fail every time.

zionic 4y ago

>Agile leader _sigh_. I can't even tell if this is satire anymore.

abledon 4y ago
i didn't mean "Industry Leader", but simply, leading efforts of Agile at Tesla. sorry for the confusion :) https://youtu.be/Q8_PnAIbQJE?t=269 https://youtu.be/Q8_PnAIbQJE?t=269

dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago

> an example he gave was for most people writing software, they are in the factory in a chair w/ a laptop beside the cars Sounds like he is making things up. Coding next to a car is pretty specious.

jollyllama 4y ago
How so? If your code is going onto a car, why wouldn't you just load it on one directly to test it out?
- hef19898 4y ago
  In a test environment? Sure. At the shop floor? Either constant bug fixing, no automated flashing or bad planning. Or all of the above.
  - abledon 4y ago
    > "What if its software? Whats the machine [you need to be by...]" https://youtu.be/mvBHS4-4OEk?t=1842 https://youtu.be/mvBHS4-4OEk?t=1842
    - jollyllama 4y ago
      >swarm, pair, mob >the goal is to do it within touching distance of the machine He's right about this. I've worked at places like this. It's very effective if you don't have extensive test and simulation infrastructure. You can say it's a bad practice, or a bad work environment, and you may be right. My point is, many places work like this.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  So test in production? I can't figure out if you're not a programmer or just a typical programer.
  - jollyllama 4y ago