5 ms·

I don't see how laws can prevent discrimination, to be honest. LLs can refuse to rent to anyone for arbitrary reasons without being required to divulge the true

I don't see how laws can prevent discrimination, to be honest. LLs can refuse to rent to anyone for arbitrary reasons without being required to divulge the true reason.

jrockway 4y ago
It being illegal means you can drag the landlord to court and ask them to explain their thinking to the court. You can say, look, here's the income and rental histories and credit scores for your tenants in separate apartments, here's documentation saying we are above that, so what's the reason for the rejection. And, lying under oath is its own crime. This is like saying "murder shouldn't be illegal because everyone is just going to bury the body". It being illegal is how the investigation starts.
- franciscop 4y ago
  No way, in most countries you also have the right to remain silent, or not say anything that could incriminate yourself, or can be assumed to lie if you are defending yourself. This is not how any of it works, at all. You cannot force someone to explain things in court like this in any kind of decent way, the laws are there to catch the openly racists IMHO. You probably even need probably cause/crime indication, which "I think, with no proof whatsoever, that he is racist" is not.
  - D13Fd 4y ago
    In the US a prospective tenant who was discriminated against may have a civil cause of action under the fair housing act. They can drag the landlord through a federal court case. I guess the landlord could plead the fifth at deposition, if there was something criminal involved, but that will probably only help the plaintiff. Remedies include damages and attorneys fees, which can be large. As a landlord, you probably aren’t going to be able to just brush off an FHA claim. Even if you ultimately prevail, it’s lilely to be a big, expensive hassle.
    - haunter 4y ago
      Sounds like incredibly hard to prove https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_issues_for_consumers/everydaylaw0/real_estate/renting_a_home/fair_housing_act/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resource... >Is a landlord allowed to discriminate in the selection of tenants? >That depends on how you define “discriminate.” The landlord isn’t required to take all applicants. He or she can use legal criteria to select tenants, such as their past history of tenancy, the amount of income they have with which to pay the rent, their credit history, and their past criminal record. The landlord may also use personal criteria in selecting tenants, such as whether they have purple hair or nose rings. In some places, a landlord may even refuse to rent to certain people because of their occupation. But the law has made many other forms of discrimination unlawful.
- Chris2048 4y ago
  > And, lying under oath is its own crime And how do you prove that? A lie isn't the same as a body.
- oytis 4y ago
  Does it work like that anywhere? At least in Germany the burden of proof in discrimination cases are on the accuser, and perpetrators have to be stupid enough to say it out loud to lose their case.

I don't see how laws can prevent discrimination, to be honest. LLs can refuse to rent to anyone for arbitrary reasons without being required to divulge the true reason.

jrockway 4y ago

It being illegal means you can drag the landlord to court and ask them to explain their thinking to the court. You can say, look, here's the income and rental histories and credit scores for your tenants in separate apartments, here's documentation saying we are above that, so what's the reason for the rejection. And, lying under oath is its own crime. This is like saying "murder shouldn't be illegal because everyone is just going to bury the body". It being illegal is how the investigation starts.

franciscop 4y ago
No way, in most countries you also have the right to remain silent, or not say anything that could incriminate yourself, or can be assumed to lie if you are defending yourself. This is not how any of it works, at all. You cannot force someone to explain things in court like this in any kind of decent way, the laws are there to catch the openly racists IMHO. You probably even need probably cause/crime indication, which "I think, with no proof whatsoever, that he is racist" is not.
- D13Fd 4y ago
  In the US a prospective tenant who was discriminated against may have a civil cause of action under the fair housing act. They can drag the landlord through a federal court case. I guess the landlord could plead the fifth at deposition, if there was something criminal involved, but that will probably only help the plaintiff. Remedies include damages and attorneys fees, which can be large. As a landlord, you probably aren’t going to be able to just brush off an FHA claim. Even if you ultimately prevail, it’s lilely to be a big, expensive hassle.
  - haunter 4y ago
    Sounds like incredibly hard to prove https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_issues_for_consumers/everydaylaw0/real_estate/renting_a_home/fair_housing_act/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resource... >Is a landlord allowed to discriminate in the selection of tenants? >That depends on how you define “discriminate.” The landlord isn’t required to take all applicants. He or she can use legal criteria to select tenants, such as their past history of tenancy, the amount of income they have with which to pay the rent, their credit history, and their past criminal record. The landlord may also use personal criteria in selecting tenants, such as whether they have purple hair or nose rings. In some places, a landlord may even refuse to rent to certain people because of their occupation. But the law has made many other forms of discrimination unlawful.
Chris2048 4y ago
> And, lying under oath is its own crime And how do you prove that? A lie isn't the same as a body.
oytis 4y ago
Does it work like that anywhere? At least in Germany the burden of proof in discrimination cases are on the accuser, and perpetrators have to be stupid enough to say it out loud to lose their case.