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Was surprised to see “Singapore”, expected “Bay Area.” When I left my last rental after buying a house, my elderly white landlord asked me to help him put the

by TomVDB 4y ago

Was surprised to see “Singapore”, expected “Bay Area.” When I left my last rental after buying a house, my elderly white landlord asked me to help him put the property on Craigslist. When I did so and mentioned the Cupertino school district, he asked me to remove that part because “it would attract too many Indian families with kids” to avoid the curry smell. He had no issue with other Asian ethnicities, the previous tenant was Chinese. I did not remove it, but I don’t know anything about the next renter. I’ve since heard the same comment from people at work who rent out property. The curry smell is always the issue.

raarts 4y ago
Why? Globally speaking, the US is one of the least racist countries.
- _fat_santa 4y ago
  I think it's hard for even Americans to wrap their heads around how big the country really is, and how diverse it is. While typically less racist, you still get a ton of it in various places, less about the place and more about the individual person. It's also hard to compare the US to other places. Japan and many other places are very homogenous societies, the US is the polar opposite and wears that with pride. At a high level you can say "Americans aren't racist" and that would mostly be true, but in the details everyone is different.
- tokai 4y ago
  You have to post your source on that. The surveys I find put the US in the most racist countries category. Not the most worst of the worst, but definitely in the worst end.
  - raarts 4y ago
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15...
    - wikfwikf 4y ago
      This is a survey which simply asked people whether or not they have racist attitudes, essentially.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
Is it legal to mandate, as a landlord, not cooking with curry? Or requiring a cleaning surcharge if one does so without e.g. properly ventilating, washing one’s hands and using odor absorbers?
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  It is impossible to charge a fee large enough to recoup costs of certain smells. Many years ago, when I worked at a hotel catering to long term stays, a portion of the clientele used to be Indian families working for TCS/Infosys/Cognizant/Gentech/etc. Their rooms were automatically put out of order for 2 to 3 weeks after their anticipated departure date, because there was a sufficiently high probability it would need significant time to air out and probably carpet shampooing and other remedies. At $150+ per night of lost revenue, no one would be willing to pay damages, and smells leave no conclusive evidence that will let you win any damages in court. Solution was to amortize these costs over all hotel guests, just like any other externalities caused by other hotel guests. Obviously, if you do not have volume, then you can greatly reduce your expenses by avoiding certain risks, which manifest as deciding not to rent to someone who you think has a high probability of costing you more money to rehabilitate the dwelling for subsequent rentals.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > impossible to charge a fee large enough to recoup costs of certain smells Why? Hotels that permit pets frequently have astronomical my-pet-peed fees. The point of the fee is less to be charged and more to signal that someone shouldn’t take the room if that’s a probability.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      It is rare that a hotel guest will pay the fee. Credit/debit cards forbid merchants from collecting for damages, so unless you have a signature signed or nowadays EMV chip approved transaction from the guest for the specific amount of the fee, they can simply do a chargeback and get their money back. The next option is court, but of course, proving a specific person caused a specific damage in a hotel is also near impossible without spending too much in legal costs. Pets are always a headache for hotels because the probability of the pet causing high dollar amount damage is so high. Scratches and whatnot on furniture, ripping carpet, peeing and pooping. Replacing furniture and carpet and whatnot easily gets into thousands of dollars. I know the hotel I worked at made a loss on pets even though pet fees were collected. >The point of the fee is less to be charged and more to signal that someone shouldn’t take the room if that’s a probability. Yes, just like smoking fees. You basically have to re-floor and repaint the walls and probably replace all the furniture and fixtures to undo long term effects of cigarette smoke to a dwelling. Hence why any decent hotel will do mandatary semi weekly or at least weekly checks of all hotel rooms (regardless if the guest has a do or disturb sign). Anytime you allow someone on your premises, you introduce all sorts of risks, and getting rid of them is not as simple as calling the police, especially when tenancy rights get involved such as with hotels. So if you want to stay in business, you have to be proactive on monitoring against these risks. Hence the use of credit card security deposits as discrimination against those who have no credit cards. It is the most effective way to reduce your probability of having to incur huge costs from problematic hotel guests.
sidibe 4y ago
Does curry smell even linger? I don't even consider it a bad smell but its not like it's going to permeate the walls like smoking. Funny he was fine with the Chinese in that case, who are more likely to cook chitlins at some point which can smell strong and bad for a week.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Does curry smell even linger? Maybe it’s liquid fats (like ghee), cooking processes that aerosolise them (pressure cooking) and the heavy use of spices that’s the problem more than curry per se?
- causi 4y ago
  its not like it's going to permeate the walls like smoking Why not? Granted curry isn't one of the smells I've dealt with but I've renovated a few houses and there are a large variety of odors that will sink into walls and floors.
- post_break 4y ago
  Lived in an apartment complex and a neighbor was indian. That smell traveled through the whole building. I honestly think it passed through walls much easier than weed. It was bad.
  - Bhilai 4y ago
    Bad for you maybe, I love the smell of curry being made. I hate the smell of meat being cooked on bbq but hey this is a free country right and everyone is allowed to cook their own food.
    - post_break 4y ago
      I don't mind the smell, I do mind the smell every single day. Just like I don't mind kids playing, babies crying, loud music. But when it happens every day it gets to be a bit much.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
idk1 4y ago
I'm white and my husband is British Indian. Back in 2010 now before we were married he got a few rental rejects, one specifically mentioned the curry issue. He's never cooked a curry in his life. I just want to give him a hug when these things happen, it's awful.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- b112 4y ago
  I'm a white canuck, and love curry and other hot spices. I feel like if I ever rent there, I should invite you guys over, the use the opportunity to cook curry. Even if we just eat steaks, and I put the curry in the fridge for later, your husband will likely get the blame. It would be an interesting test/data point. Does the landlord approach me, and say no more Indian guests? Plus, at least you guys get a free meal out of it.
  - Lapsa 4y ago
    curry rocks. Indian cuisine is my favorite. if I could - would eat every day at Krishna's
_ph_ 4y ago
I wonder where the specific problem with curry would be. Yes, cooking can be smelly, it is mostly independant of who cooks. Yes, certain spices are especially intense, but in my eyes not very problematic. There is garlic and of course just plain onions in almost any countries cusine. What I personally suffer from, if someone fries fish, that can create truly disgusting smells. Or smokes cigars. They can leave a nasty lingering odor.
Bhilai 4y ago
Its my theory that this has to do with western kitchens not designed to ventilate properly. Some apartments have no windows near kitchen area and the exhaust does not vent the fumes out, instead vents them back into the apartment making things worse.
obvioustemp2 4y ago
Indian here. My company had booked a B&B when i was staying in UK for few months. Once i got Indian takeout, the landlady did not want that to be brought to the room because of curry smell. But the whole building smelled when they cooked some meat/pork. Even the bath towels smelled. I suppose its what the smell you are used to.
- moistly 4y ago
  If your UK landlady were to visit [Asia?], the locals—if asked by another local—would say that she smells “sour”[?] IIRC. And the thing is, she does! There is a genetic expression the yields the difference between wet:dry::European:Asian populations and it also affects our other excretion glands! https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/body-odor-asians-and-earwax https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/body-odor-asia... (just after the graphs, near the end) One becomes desensitized to the local fragrance ps over time. When everyone/everything stinks, no locals really smell it. Ask a horsie person if the barns stink. At best they’ll agree it has a smell. Interestingly, I encountered a new-to-me “white peoples smell of dogs” rumour. The discussion lends credence to the idea that genetically distinctive populations have different body odours. https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-people-think-that-white-people-smell/162575/11 https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-people-think-that... Edit: mostly diet differences, I think, which also tracks closely with the gene discussed in the first link.
jhanschoo 4y ago
Singaporeans are all well aware about the discrimination in renting. It is opportune to note that almost one year ago the Prime Minister addressed this as part of a speech https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ndr-entirely-baseless-claim-chinese-privilege-exists-singapore-lee-hsien-loong-2143026 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ndr-entirely-basel... , in so doing claiming that all races are treated equally, disingenuously so by narrowing his use of equal treatment to be with respect to the state apparatus, and not Singaporean society at large Indeed, here too the reason claimed is Indian curries

by TomVDB 4y ago

raarts 4y ago

Why? Globally speaking, the US is one of the least racist countries.

_fat_santa 4y ago
I think it's hard for even Americans to wrap their heads around how big the country really is, and how diverse it is. While typically less racist, you still get a ton of it in various places, less about the place and more about the individual person. It's also hard to compare the US to other places. Japan and many other places are very homogenous societies, the US is the polar opposite and wears that with pride. At a high level you can say "Americans aren't racist" and that would mostly be true, but in the details everyone is different.
tokai 4y ago
You have to post your source on that. The surveys I find put the US in the most racist countries category. Not the most worst of the worst, but definitely in the worst end.
- raarts 4y ago
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15...
  - wikfwikf 4y ago
    This is a survey which simply asked people whether or not they have racist attitudes, essentially.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

Is it legal to mandate, as a landlord, not cooking with curry? Or requiring a cleaning surcharge if one does so without e.g. properly ventilating, washing one’s hands and using odor absorbers?

lotsofpulp 4y ago
It is impossible to charge a fee large enough to recoup costs of certain smells. Many years ago, when I worked at a hotel catering to long term stays, a portion of the clientele used to be Indian families working for TCS/Infosys/Cognizant/Gentech/etc. Their rooms were automatically put out of order for 2 to 3 weeks after their anticipated departure date, because there was a sufficiently high probability it would need significant time to air out and probably carpet shampooing and other remedies. At $150+ per night of lost revenue, no one would be willing to pay damages, and smells leave no conclusive evidence that will let you win any damages in court. Solution was to amortize these costs over all hotel guests, just like any other externalities caused by other hotel guests. Obviously, if you do not have volume, then you can greatly reduce your expenses by avoiding certain risks, which manifest as deciding not to rent to someone who you think has a high probability of costing you more money to rehabilitate the dwelling for subsequent rentals.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > impossible to charge a fee large enough to recoup costs of certain smells Why? Hotels that permit pets frequently have astronomical my-pet-peed fees. The point of the fee is less to be charged and more to signal that someone shouldn’t take the room if that’s a probability.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    It is rare that a hotel guest will pay the fee. Credit/debit cards forbid merchants from collecting for damages, so unless you have a signature signed or nowadays EMV chip approved transaction from the guest for the specific amount of the fee, they can simply do a chargeback and get their money back. The next option is court, but of course, proving a specific person caused a specific damage in a hotel is also near impossible without spending too much in legal costs. Pets are always a headache for hotels because the probability of the pet causing high dollar amount damage is so high. Scratches and whatnot on furniture, ripping carpet, peeing and pooping. Replacing furniture and carpet and whatnot easily gets into thousands of dollars. I know the hotel I worked at made a loss on pets even though pet fees were collected. >The point of the fee is less to be charged and more to signal that someone shouldn’t take the room if that’s a probability. Yes, just like smoking fees. You basically have to re-floor and repaint the walls and probably replace all the furniture and fixtures to undo long term effects of cigarette smoke to a dwelling. Hence why any decent hotel will do mandatary semi weekly or at least weekly checks of all hotel rooms (regardless if the guest has a do or disturb sign). Anytime you allow someone on your premises, you introduce all sorts of risks, and getting rid of them is not as simple as calling the police, especially when tenancy rights get involved such as with hotels. So if you want to stay in business, you have to be proactive on monitoring against these risks. Hence the use of credit card security deposits as discrimination against those who have no credit cards. It is the most effective way to reduce your probability of having to incur huge costs from problematic hotel guests.

sidibe 4y ago

Does curry smell even linger? I don't even consider it a bad smell but its not like it's going to permeate the walls like smoking. Funny he was fine with the Chinese in that case, who are more likely to cook chitlins at some point which can smell strong and bad for a week.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Does curry smell even linger? Maybe it’s liquid fats (like ghee), cooking processes that aerosolise them (pressure cooking) and the heavy use of spices that’s the problem more than curry per se?
causi 4y ago
its not like it's going to permeate the walls like smoking Why not? Granted curry isn't one of the smells I've dealt with but I've renovated a few houses and there are a large variety of odors that will sink into walls and floors.
post_break 4y ago
Lived in an apartment complex and a neighbor was indian. That smell traveled through the whole building. I honestly think it passed through walls much easier than weed. It was bad.
- Bhilai 4y ago
  Bad for you maybe, I love the smell of curry being made. I hate the smell of meat being cooked on bbq but hey this is a free country right and everyone is allowed to cook their own food.
  - post_break 4y ago
    I don't mind the smell, I do mind the smell every single day. Just like I don't mind kids playing, babies crying, loud music. But when it happens every day it gets to be a bit much.
lotsofpulp 4y ago

idk1 4y ago

I'm white and my husband is British Indian. Back in 2010 now before we were married he got a few rental rejects, one specifically mentioned the curry issue. He's never cooked a curry in his life. I just want to give him a hug when these things happen, it's awful.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
b112 4y ago
I'm a white canuck, and love curry and other hot spices. I feel like if I ever rent there, I should invite you guys over, the use the opportunity to cook curry. Even if we just eat steaks, and I put the curry in the fridge for later, your husband will likely get the blame. It would be an interesting test/data point. Does the landlord approach me, and say no more Indian guests? Plus, at least you guys get a free meal out of it.
- Lapsa 4y ago
  curry rocks. Indian cuisine is my favorite. if I could - would eat every day at Krishna's

_ph_ 4y ago

I wonder where the specific problem with curry would be. Yes, cooking can be smelly, it is mostly independant of who cooks. Yes, certain spices are especially intense, but in my eyes not very problematic. There is garlic and of course just plain onions in almost any countries cusine. What I personally suffer from, if someone fries fish, that can create truly disgusting smells. Or smokes cigars. They can leave a nasty lingering odor.

Bhilai 4y ago

Its my theory that this has to do with western kitchens not designed to ventilate properly. Some apartments have no windows near kitchen area and the exhaust does not vent the fumes out, instead vents them back into the apartment making things worse.

obvioustemp2 4y ago

Indian here. My company had booked a B&B when i was staying in UK for few months. Once i got Indian takeout, the landlady did not want that to be brought to the room because of curry smell. But the whole building smelled when they cooked some meat/pork. Even the bath towels smelled. I suppose its what the smell you are used to.

moistly 4y ago
If your UK landlady were to visit [Asia?], the locals—if asked by another local—would say that she smells “sour”[?] IIRC. And the thing is, she does! There is a genetic expression the yields the difference between wet:dry::European:Asian populations and it also affects our other excretion glands! https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/body-odor-asians-and-earwax https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/body-odor-asia... (just after the graphs, near the end) One becomes desensitized to the local fragrance ps over time. When everyone/everything stinks, no locals really smell it. Ask a horsie person if the barns stink. At best they’ll agree it has a smell. Interestingly, I encountered a new-to-me “white peoples smell of dogs” rumour. The discussion lends credence to the idea that genetically distinctive populations have different body odours. https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-people-think-that-white-people-smell/162575/11 https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-people-think-that... Edit: mostly diet differences, I think, which also tracks closely with the gene discussed in the first link.

jhanschoo 4y ago

Singaporeans are all well aware about the discrimination in renting. It is opportune to note that almost one year ago the Prime Minister addressed this as part of a speech https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ndr-entirely-baseless-claim-chinese-privilege-exists-singapore-lee-hsien-loong-2143026 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ndr-entirely-basel... , in so doing claiming that all races are treated equally, disingenuously so by narrowing his use of equal treatment to be with respect to the state apparatus, and not Singaporean society at large Indeed, here too the reason claimed is Indian curries