3 ms·

> ... The only relevant question is whether we can find a cheap and efficient way of storing it ... Not sure which percentage of the cost of the whole system c

by ephbit 4y ago

> ... The only relevant question is whether we can find a cheap and efficient way of storing it ... Not sure which percentage of the cost of the whole system comes from the hydrogen storage in these standardized steel containers. To me it looks like the bigger issue for most property owners would be finding the space for putting enough of these containers (guess they need to be kept outdoors for security reasons) rather than the cost of the containers themselves. https://www.homepowersolutions.de/en/product/ https://www.homepowersolutions.de/en/product/

Schroedingersat 4y ago
Per residence storage is likely going to be fairly niche and much more expensive unless you're using the heat in both directions. Crompressed hydrogen is way too big and dangerous, cryo is unfeasible and far too dangerous for small scale and expensive at large, and metal hydride storage is still too expensive to put mined methane to bed. Ammonia (as the other commenter mentioned) is a major contender, but I expect it will be blocked soon for small scale by the methane lobby with the rationalization of "der terrerrists haev nitrogen'. Synthetic methane is the other major contender.
- ephbit 4y ago
  > Crompressed hydrogen is way too big and dangerous .. The linked company appears to be able to handle this. Although there aren't that many installations of their system. (Which is probably due to the system not yet reaching break even soon if at all, because energy is still quite cheap.) As soon as an ammonia fuel cell is available as mature tech, ammonia will probably be the storage of choice for large scale systems. But for residential storage hydrogen has the advantage that an electrolyser is comparatively simple mature tech, while ammonia synthesis probably won't be soon if ever.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    I can't find any price or performance numbers on their site so I'm sceptical. I did find some alibaba listings for pressure tanks. The cheapest believable ones were about $100 for a 50L 300bar tank. This works out to about $3k for a MWh of storage. You'd have to fill and empty it a couple of times a year for 20 years to break even vs nuclear just on the storage cost. It might beat retail in some areas though, and you'd need 50 or so of them to over winter in cold areas. Sounds like medium term storage (weeks) is solved if $100/tank (or even $1000/tank) is doable though.

by ephbit 4y ago

Schroedingersat 4y ago

Per residence storage is likely going to be fairly niche and much more expensive unless you're using the heat in both directions. Crompressed hydrogen is way too big and dangerous, cryo is unfeasible and far too dangerous for small scale and expensive at large, and metal hydride storage is still too expensive to put mined methane to bed. Ammonia (as the other commenter mentioned) is a major contender, but I expect it will be blocked soon for small scale by the methane lobby with the rationalization of "der terrerrists haev nitrogen'. Synthetic methane is the other major contender.

ephbit 4y ago
> Crompressed hydrogen is way too big and dangerous .. The linked company appears to be able to handle this. Although there aren't that many installations of their system. (Which is probably due to the system not yet reaching break even soon if at all, because energy is still quite cheap.) As soon as an ammonia fuel cell is available as mature tech, ammonia will probably be the storage of choice for large scale systems. But for residential storage hydrogen has the advantage that an electrolyser is comparatively simple mature tech, while ammonia synthesis probably won't be soon if ever.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  I can't find any price or performance numbers on their site so I'm sceptical. I did find some alibaba listings for pressure tanks. The cheapest believable ones were about $100 for a 50L 300bar tank. This works out to about $3k for a MWh of storage. You'd have to fill and empty it a couple of times a year for 20 years to break even vs nuclear just on the storage cost. It might beat retail in some areas though, and you'd need 50 or so of them to over winter in cold areas. Sounds like medium term storage (weeks) is solved if $100/tank (or even $1000/tank) is doable though.