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Some people find it difficult to vote, for reasons I suspect disproportionately affect renters. Where people must be registered with their home address in order

Some people find it difficult to vote, for reasons I suspect disproportionately affect renters. Where people must be registered with their home address in order to vote, renters are at more risk of being unregistered at election time, because they move home more frequently. People experiencing economic hardship (who are more likely to be renters) are less likely to make time for voting (especially if polling stations are congested or at inconvenient locations) or for prompt electoral registration.

pochekailov 4y ago
We probably need some service (an app or a site) that gives clear instructions on how, where and when to register. Yes, it is harder for renters, but it is designed to be harder. This is to prevent renters from having political power and making homeowner's houses more expensive. One more reason to fight, from my point of view.
- choko 4y ago
  We have all that and more. There are even groups that seek people out to teach them to vote. When you file a change of address with the post office, they send you a packet with all kinds of moving resources including how to re-register. In addition, a really quick Google search gives you all you need to know to register and vote. I don't understand why some people pretend the process is difficult. If people still aren't voting it's due to lack of interest, not because it's confusing or difficult.
  - Retric 4y ago
    It is unreasonably difficult. There is no reason you should need to jump through any extra hoops beyond a change of address.
    - choko 4y ago
      Why stop there? Perhaps government employees should go door to door and record my vote for me. Sending something in the mail is unreasonably difficult.
      - Retric 4y ago
        Because this would actually save the government and thus taxpayers 100+ million dollars a year? A change of address is informing the government you moved and happens millions of times a year. Automating it doesn't just save citizens 10’s of millions of hours per year it also saves all the effort by all these different agencies when people communicate the same information to multiple agencies.
        choko 4y ago
        Would it though? The agencies are at different levels - local vs. federal. In addition, you are notifying the post office you have moved, not the government. Your federal notification is basically to the IRS, and not everyone pays income tax, so integration there would not work. Also, not all taxpayers are eligible to vote - another complication. You have oversimplified the details of this sort of integration and conflated local vs federal institutions. The best way to do this change would be through your state's BMV/DMV, and many states already update your registration (or offer to) when you submit an address change there. Registration and voting are easy and well documented in every state in which I've lived or researched.
        Retric 4y ago
        Federal and state agencies communicate all the time. It’s much easier going from the federal level down to the state level and local level. It’s not that it takes a lot of effort per person to update the DMV and voter records it’s dumb specifically because most government agencies are automatically updated. So essentially this is just wasting 330 million peoples time for absolutely zero benefit.
  - dwater 4y ago
    55% of Americans have hourly jobs, most of which do not control their hours. There are many polling places, particularly in underserved communities, where it can take multiple hours to get to vote. Elections are nearly always held on workdays. So if you are a single parent working an hourly wage job from 8am to 6pm and the polls close at 7pm, would you vote? The voting process is difficult in America for some people and easy for others.
    - powerhour 4y ago
      Unfortunately even states with all-mail voting don't see a large increase in turnout. For example, WA state has had all-mail voting since 2011 and here's the numbers: https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/voter-participation.aspx https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/voter-participation.aspx
      - lesuorac 4y ago
        While I'm a big fan of vote by mail, it's not the only thing. Having early voting options would also help that hypothetical person as they can vote in person on a day they don't work.
    - choko 4y ago
      The vast majority of states have no excuse absentee voting and/or early in-person voting options. In addition, employees are legally required to allow time off to vote, though in the overwhelming majority of states, the early voting options make this unnecessary. https://www.vote.org/early-voting-calendar/ https://www.vote.org/early-voting-calendar/ If people want to participate, they have many options. I've found that if you need to argue edge cases (single parent, hourly schedule that almost completely overlaps poll hours, no absentee, no early voting or mail-in, and an employer that violates law) as you have in your post, you do not have a compelling argument.
  - lambertsimnel 4y ago
    You're probably correct in many (or even most) cases, but I still believe that it's too difficult for some people, for two reasons: 1) Some people are under more stress than others, and are less able to summon the effort to vote. Admittedly, this does also include people in rather different circumstances, such as elderly homeowners who become unwell at election time (especially after the postal vote deadline). 2) Voting arrangements aren't uniform between countries (or even within one country), and travelling some distance to a polling station and then queuing to vote is a burden some voters might experience much more than others.
    - choko 4y ago
      The vast majority of states offer a multitude of early voting or absentee/mail in voting options. As far as uniform regulations between counties, who cares? Each person is only supposed to vote once, and in a single county. Learn your local regulations (easy as this is well documented) and follow them. Further, you won't ever come up with a system that is 100% inclusive, secure, reliable, and economical. That should never be the goal since it's not achievable or necessary. Covering 99% of cases is good enough.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    I don't get why there's a "process" at all. In Canada, when I change my address with the CRA (our version of the IRS), my voter registration gets updated automatically. Why is there a separate step in the US? I've also voted when my CRA address was out-of-date at the time, and this was fine too as long as I brought government-issued ID or a recent bill sent to my new address.
    - choko 4y ago
      Like most things in the USA, voting is a local matter, not federal. It would be prohibitive for the post office to manage this across 50 states with differing rules. States in the US have more atonomy than states in most of the rest of the world. So much so that it often doesn't make sense to compare national US figures to national figures in other nations - education being a good example - https://learn.uvm.edu/blog/blog-education/vermont-eighth-graders-rank-high-globally-in-math-science https://learn.uvm.edu/blog/blog-education/vermont-eighth-gra... But the same applies to voting. The federalist system under which the US operates allows communities and localities the flexibility to operate in a manner consistent with local needs and values.
alistairSH 4y ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Whether it's intentional or not, voting in the US is not always easy for several reasons... 1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. 2 - Long lines, too few voting stations, exacerbate point 1 3 - Inconsistent voting laws as you cross municipal boundaries (mostly state to state). 3b - particularly WRT mail-in/absentee ballots. 4 - constant undermining of the voting system as a whole by the GOP. This has really ramped up in the last ~8 years, but it's been there much longer. The first 3 are more likely to impact poorer citizens, who are also more likely to rent their homes. We'd do well as a country to allow nationwide mail-in voting.
- jimbob45 4y ago
  1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. PSA: You can register as a poll worker and work election day to guarantee you have time to vote. There's a high chance that your work will give you the time off to go work as a poll worker without it eating into your PTO (and you get paid to boot!).
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    > There's a high chance that your work will give you the time off to go work as a poll worker without it eating into your PTO (and you get paid to boot!). As an ex-linecook, LOL, there are too many assumptions baked in here to be in the realm of reality for working class jobs
  - Loughla 4y ago
    Holy cow, not even a little bit. This is so, so middle- to upper-middle income centered it's not even funny. 1st you are assuming people have one employer to worry about, not multiple. 2nd you are assuming people have a set schedule daily or weekly. 3rd you are assuming people have PTO. 4th you are assuming the employer will give any amount of shit about volunteerism. 5th you are assuming they won't be given a point or docked for missing a shift.
    - 4y ago
mikkergp 4y ago
I was curious on the data on this. I mean difficulty voting certainly is a major narrative and passes the smell test but the survey in this article suggests 3/4’s of non voters say it is easy to vote: https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/561886-whos-not-voting-in-america/amp/ https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/561886-whos-not-voting-... This is however contrasted by the confusing bit that not being registered was the biggest reason people didn’t vote, above apathy and political disengagement.
- ghaff 4y ago
  > not being registered was the biggest reason people didn’t vote, above apathy and political disengagement. And it seems likely they didn't make the (often minimal) effort to get registered because of apathy or political disengagement.
  - Loughla 4y ago
    Let's have this thought experiment played out. What did it look like for you to get registered to vote?
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Well, I get a form every year from my town to confirm my particulars. I sign it and send it back. I guess if I weren't registered I'd go down to the town hall and do so. If I couldn't for some reason, I assume I could call the town clerk, and they'd send me a form in the mail. When I go into Cambridge around election time, I frequently see various tables set up to register people. Obviously registering (and voting) is harder for some people than others but registering to vote is not, in general, an arduous process.
      - Loughla 4y ago
        >I guess if weren't registered I'd go down to the town hall and do so. What if your job wouldn't let you off during the town hall's regular hours? What if you don't have transportation? What if you don't have the necessary forms of identification? > I assume I could call the town clerk, and they'd send me a form in the mail What if you're not already registered and cannot just fill out a form to send in? What if you have to provide proof of residency in the form of a bill in your name and current address that matches your ID? What if you don't have an ID because you can't get to the DMV because you can't get time off work to go get it, or you don't have transportation, or you don't have internet access to set an online appointment with the DMV, or your credit is bad enough that the bills are only in your roommate's name to avoid headache with those companies? I guess my point is, it's very flippant to just say, "well it's easy for me, so it's probably pretty easy for everyone else, so it must be apathy as the only solution."
woofyman 4y ago
There’s early voting.

pochekailov 4y ago

We probably need some service (an app or a site) that gives clear instructions on how, where and when to register. Yes, it is harder for renters, but it is designed to be harder. This is to prevent renters from having political power and making homeowner's houses more expensive. One more reason to fight, from my point of view.

choko 4y ago
We have all that and more. There are even groups that seek people out to teach them to vote. When you file a change of address with the post office, they send you a packet with all kinds of moving resources including how to re-register. In addition, a really quick Google search gives you all you need to know to register and vote. I don't understand why some people pretend the process is difficult. If people still aren't voting it's due to lack of interest, not because it's confusing or difficult.
- Retric 4y ago
  It is unreasonably difficult. There is no reason you should need to jump through any extra hoops beyond a change of address.
  - choko 4y ago
    Why stop there? Perhaps government employees should go door to door and record my vote for me. Sending something in the mail is unreasonably difficult.
    - Retric 4y ago
      Because this would actually save the government and thus taxpayers 100+ million dollars a year? A change of address is informing the government you moved and happens millions of times a year. Automating it doesn't just save citizens 10’s of millions of hours per year it also saves all the effort by all these different agencies when people communicate the same information to multiple agencies.
      - choko 4y ago
        Would it though? The agencies are at different levels - local vs. federal. In addition, you are notifying the post office you have moved, not the government. Your federal notification is basically to the IRS, and not everyone pays income tax, so integration there would not work. Also, not all taxpayers are eligible to vote - another complication. You have oversimplified the details of this sort of integration and conflated local vs federal institutions. The best way to do this change would be through your state's BMV/DMV, and many states already update your registration (or offer to) when you submit an address change there. Registration and voting are easy and well documented in every state in which I've lived or researched.
        Retric 4y ago
        Federal and state agencies communicate all the time. It’s much easier going from the federal level down to the state level and local level. It’s not that it takes a lot of effort per person to update the DMV and voter records it’s dumb specifically because most government agencies are automatically updated. So essentially this is just wasting 330 million peoples time for absolutely zero benefit.
- dwater 4y ago
  55% of Americans have hourly jobs, most of which do not control their hours. There are many polling places, particularly in underserved communities, where it can take multiple hours to get to vote. Elections are nearly always held on workdays. So if you are a single parent working an hourly wage job from 8am to 6pm and the polls close at 7pm, would you vote? The voting process is difficult in America for some people and easy for others.
  - powerhour 4y ago
    Unfortunately even states with all-mail voting don't see a large increase in turnout. For example, WA state has had all-mail voting since 2011 and here's the numbers: https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/voter-participation.aspx https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/voter-participation.aspx
    - lesuorac 4y ago
      While I'm a big fan of vote by mail, it's not the only thing. Having early voting options would also help that hypothetical person as they can vote in person on a day they don't work.
  - choko 4y ago
    The vast majority of states have no excuse absentee voting and/or early in-person voting options. In addition, employees are legally required to allow time off to vote, though in the overwhelming majority of states, the early voting options make this unnecessary. https://www.vote.org/early-voting-calendar/ https://www.vote.org/early-voting-calendar/ If people want to participate, they have many options. I've found that if you need to argue edge cases (single parent, hourly schedule that almost completely overlaps poll hours, no absentee, no early voting or mail-in, and an employer that violates law) as you have in your post, you do not have a compelling argument.
- lambertsimnel 4y ago
  You're probably correct in many (or even most) cases, but I still believe that it's too difficult for some people, for two reasons: 1) Some people are under more stress than others, and are less able to summon the effort to vote. Admittedly, this does also include people in rather different circumstances, such as elderly homeowners who become unwell at election time (especially after the postal vote deadline). 2) Voting arrangements aren't uniform between countries (or even within one country), and travelling some distance to a polling station and then queuing to vote is a burden some voters might experience much more than others.
  - choko 4y ago
    The vast majority of states offer a multitude of early voting or absentee/mail in voting options. As far as uniform regulations between counties, who cares? Each person is only supposed to vote once, and in a single county. Learn your local regulations (easy as this is well documented) and follow them. Further, you won't ever come up with a system that is 100% inclusive, secure, reliable, and economical. That should never be the goal since it's not achievable or necessary. Covering 99% of cases is good enough.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  I don't get why there's a "process" at all. In Canada, when I change my address with the CRA (our version of the IRS), my voter registration gets updated automatically. Why is there a separate step in the US? I've also voted when my CRA address was out-of-date at the time, and this was fine too as long as I brought government-issued ID or a recent bill sent to my new address.
  - choko 4y ago
    Like most things in the USA, voting is a local matter, not federal. It would be prohibitive for the post office to manage this across 50 states with differing rules. States in the US have more atonomy than states in most of the rest of the world. So much so that it often doesn't make sense to compare national US figures to national figures in other nations - education being a good example - https://learn.uvm.edu/blog/blog-education/vermont-eighth-graders-rank-high-globally-in-math-science https://learn.uvm.edu/blog/blog-education/vermont-eighth-gra... But the same applies to voting. The federalist system under which the US operates allows communities and localities the flexibility to operate in a manner consistent with local needs and values.

alistairSH 4y ago

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Whether it's intentional or not, voting in the US is not always easy for several reasons... 1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. 2 - Long lines, too few voting stations, exacerbate point 1 3 - Inconsistent voting laws as you cross municipal boundaries (mostly state to state). 3b - particularly WRT mail-in/absentee ballots. 4 - constant undermining of the voting system as a whole by the GOP. This has really ramped up in the last ~8 years, but it's been there much longer. The first 3 are more likely to impact poorer citizens, who are also more likely to rent their homes. We'd do well as a country to allow nationwide mail-in voting.

jimbob45 4y ago
1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. PSA: You can register as a poll worker and work election day to guarantee you have time to vote. There's a high chance that your work will give you the time off to go work as a poll worker without it eating into your PTO (and you get paid to boot!).
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  > There's a high chance that your work will give you the time off to go work as a poll worker without it eating into your PTO (and you get paid to boot!). As an ex-linecook, LOL, there are too many assumptions baked in here to be in the realm of reality for working class jobs
- Loughla 4y ago
  Holy cow, not even a little bit. This is so, so middle- to upper-middle income centered it's not even funny. 1st you are assuming people have one employer to worry about, not multiple. 2nd you are assuming people have a set schedule daily or weekly. 3rd you are assuming people have PTO. 4th you are assuming the employer will give any amount of shit about volunteerism. 5th you are assuming they won't be given a point or docked for missing a shift.
  - 4y ago

mikkergp 4y ago

I was curious on the data on this. I mean difficulty voting certainly is a major narrative and passes the smell test but the survey in this article suggests 3/4’s of non voters say it is easy to vote: https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/561886-whos-not-voting-in-america/amp/ https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/561886-whos-not-voting-... This is however contrasted by the confusing bit that not being registered was the biggest reason people didn’t vote, above apathy and political disengagement.

ghaff 4y ago
> not being registered was the biggest reason people didn’t vote, above apathy and political disengagement. And it seems likely they didn't make the (often minimal) effort to get registered because of apathy or political disengagement.
- Loughla 4y ago
  Let's have this thought experiment played out. What did it look like for you to get registered to vote?
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Well, I get a form every year from my town to confirm my particulars. I sign it and send it back. I guess if I weren't registered I'd go down to the town hall and do so. If I couldn't for some reason, I assume I could call the town clerk, and they'd send me a form in the mail. When I go into Cambridge around election time, I frequently see various tables set up to register people. Obviously registering (and voting) is harder for some people than others but registering to vote is not, in general, an arduous process.
    - Loughla 4y ago
      >I guess if weren't registered I'd go down to the town hall and do so. What if your job wouldn't let you off during the town hall's regular hours? What if you don't have transportation? What if you don't have the necessary forms of identification? > I assume I could call the town clerk, and they'd send me a form in the mail What if you're not already registered and cannot just fill out a form to send in? What if you have to provide proof of residency in the form of a bill in your name and current address that matches your ID? What if you don't have an ID because you can't get to the DMV because you can't get time off work to go get it, or you don't have transportation, or you don't have internet access to set an online appointment with the DMV, or your credit is bad enough that the bills are only in your roommate's name to avoid headache with those companies? I guess my point is, it's very flippant to just say, "well it's easy for me, so it's probably pretty easy for everyone else, so it must be apathy as the only solution."

woofyman 4y ago

There’s early voting.