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> I won't engage with "what people actually want" except to point to sales figures, I guess. I'd say that a person's first purchase of a Tesla only signals wha

> I won't engage with "what people actually want" except to point to sales figures, I guess. I'd say that a person's first purchase of a Tesla only signals what they think they want. If they buy another one after the first then I'd agree it is actually what they want, or at least they like the other benefits of the Tesla enough to outweigh anything they don't like. I believe I fully understand the new paradigm. I had a 2018 Volvo XC90 and it's sort of a hybrid between the new and old paradigm. They have a fairly large screen (not as large as Tesla) and then a handful of buttons for functions that are fairly important if something is wrong with the screen (front window defrost, rear window defog, etc). I sold it after a year because I did not like it. It also supported voice control for all of these features, as did my BMW before that, as does my current vehicle. Voice control sucks to varying degrees on all of these vehicles, and if someone in the car is talking or you're on a phone call, you can't adjust things with your voice. I'd rather just have buttons and knobs with tactile feedback that are always available. But it's true, maybe other people don't want tactile controls. I mean, UX in general tends to disagree with this notion, but the iPhone beat the blackberry so it's possible that my in vehicle preferences are not what everyone wants. Either way, the automakers win with lower costs.

ajross 4y ago
> If they buy another one after the first then I'd agree it is actually what they want Tesla is, I believe (and I'm too lazy[2] to try to look up where I read this) the most repurchased brand on the market today. The used market for these cars is literally priced above new vehicles[1]! Were you really not aware? Does that maybe change your opinion? [1] Which is to say, on balance Tesla owners won't sell their cars even if they could make a profit doing so. [2] Found this one, which is probably coverage of the same Experian survey: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2021/12/31/tesla-no-1-in-brand-loyalty-then-subaru-gm-also-scores-well-experian-says https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2021/12/31/tesla-no-1-...
- bonestamp2 4y ago
  That's all great information for the case that people love their Teslas, I have no doubt about that. I'm still not convinced people are rebuying Tesla's because they prefer touchscreens over tactile buttons though. I believe there are plenty of factors that go into that loyalty decision. I'm sure some people do prefer touchscreens, and some don't -- but we don't know what that breakdown is. This study just came out: https://www.vibilagare.se/nyheter/physical-buttons-outperform-touchscreens-new-cars-test-finds https://www.vibilagare.se/nyheter/physical-buttons-outperfor... The study adds another variable to the discussion -- even if users prefer touchscreens, touchscreens are less safe than real buttons.
  - ajross 4y ago
    Sigh. That link is not a "study", and it's not measuring safety. It's a single test of task completion time run by a magazine supported by advertising from legacy car brands (mostly Volvo, it looks like). It's designed to do exactly what it just did, get itself into conversations like this so people who don't want to believe that their advertisers' competitor[1] has a good product can continue to believe that. FWIW: You don't need to go to Sweden to find that stuff anyway, Car & Driver and Motor Trend both hate Tesla too (and for the same reason: Tesla doesn't advertise). If there are safety effects measurable with Teslas, we'd be measuring safety effects. There are millions of these cars on the road. They are safe. I know it, you know it, the time for hand-wavy hypotheticals is long past. You need something more. Even Ralph Nader started with real accident statistics on the Corvair. [1] Tesla

ajross 4y ago

> If they buy another one after the first then I'd agree it is actually what they want Tesla is, I believe (and I'm too lazy[2] to try to look up where I read this) the most repurchased brand on the market today. The used market for these cars is literally priced above new vehicles[1]! Were you really not aware? Does that maybe change your opinion? [1] Which is to say, on balance Tesla owners won't sell their cars even if they could make a profit doing so. [2] Found this one, which is probably coverage of the same Experian survey: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2021/12/31/tesla-no-1-in-brand-loyalty-then-subaru-gm-also-scores-well-experian-says https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2021/12/31/tesla-no-1-...

bonestamp2 4y ago
That's all great information for the case that people love their Teslas, I have no doubt about that. I'm still not convinced people are rebuying Tesla's because they prefer touchscreens over tactile buttons though. I believe there are plenty of factors that go into that loyalty decision. I'm sure some people do prefer touchscreens, and some don't -- but we don't know what that breakdown is. This study just came out: https://www.vibilagare.se/nyheter/physical-buttons-outperform-touchscreens-new-cars-test-finds https://www.vibilagare.se/nyheter/physical-buttons-outperfor... The study adds another variable to the discussion -- even if users prefer touchscreens, touchscreens are less safe than real buttons.
- ajross 4y ago
  Sigh. That link is not a "study", and it's not measuring safety. It's a single test of task completion time run by a magazine supported by advertising from legacy car brands (mostly Volvo, it looks like). It's designed to do exactly what it just did, get itself into conversations like this so people who don't want to believe that their advertisers' competitor[1] has a good product can continue to believe that. FWIW: You don't need to go to Sweden to find that stuff anyway, Car & Driver and Motor Trend both hate Tesla too (and for the same reason: Tesla doesn't advertise). If there are safety effects measurable with Teslas, we'd be measuring safety effects. There are millions of these cars on the road. They are safe. I know it, you know it, the time for hand-wavy hypotheticals is long past. You need something more. Even Ralph Nader started with real accident statistics on the Corvair. [1] Tesla