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A little life story: I had commercial success in art at the humble age of 23. Not only were my paintings respected and collected by accomplished and wealthy in

by nbzso 4y ago

A little life story: I had commercial success in art at the humble age of 23. Not only were my paintings respected and collected by accomplished and wealthy individuals, they formed commissions for years to come. My success was the result of an obsession with craftsmanship and clever word-of-mouth marketing. Suddenly, one day after insisting on meeting the deadline of the expensive commission, I had a headache and my nose was bleeding. Fortunately, it turned out to be a minimal problem as a result of stress. I stopped painting for a month and went to rest in the mountains. There I discovered that, influenced by success and the pursuit of perfection, I had lost the most valuable of my talents. To enjoy the process. I then vowed to no longer let the need for material success and validation come before my need to express myself visually and feel enjoyment of the freedom to change my artistic style or experiment without direction. I returned the prepaid orders, apologized for the disappointment I was causing, and moved on. Not only that, but I realized that I would have to work another job if I wanted to keep the purity of the process for myself. I began in graphic design, moved to web design and started a web solutions company. And when my friends ask me to this day: How could you turn your back on your successful art career? I answer them: I don't paint for you. I paint for myself. It's part of my life. A place where there are no compromises, no demands, no expectations, no projections, no assessments, no tasks, no metrics, no applause and no glory. A place where I am happy.

deathanatos 4y ago
I can't paint for myself: > the nature of [needing to put bread on the table] is energy depleting zapping any creative juices needed for the concentration and initiative to produce content. Let alone something of high-quality that doesn’t exude fatigue.
JoeyBananas 4y ago
> I don't paint for you. I paint for myself. It's part of my life. A place where there are no compromises, no demands, no expectations, no projections, no assessments, no tasks, no metrics, no applause and no glory. That sounds idealistic to the point of foolishness. The end result of your decision to quit art was that you had to get a job as a graphic designer. Doesn't that achieve even less of your vision? A lot of people encounter this same dilemma: "do I want to conform to an imperfect system in order to stay in my chosen profession, or should I quit?" By choosing to quit, you are giving up all of your leverage. You will be replaced by the next "yes man" who doesn't share your vision. If you stick with it, you can continue to nudge the system in the direction you want.
- disantlor 4y ago
  unless you conclude that art and the “system” are incompatible on some fundamental way. i’ve arrived at a similar place as OP anyway
- progman32 4y ago
  There is nothing in the laws of nature that require "rational actor" application of leverage. Money does not buy happiness. It seems their previous job directly conflicted with their stated goal of expressing themselves, and the new graphic design gig does not. To me that achieved quite a lot.
  - nbzso 4y ago
    Correct. Creating design and products serves others. Painting is personal. In my view, this is the difference between art and design. When creating art, I share my personal vision and emotions. Design is 'function over form', the goal of design is the UX and achieving a set of goals. The successful design/product is free from the designer's and creators egos, its purpose is to serve. You can use artistic tools and interpretation in graphic design as a medium, but you must deliver a balanced result within a set of rules and goals.
- jhanschoo 4y ago
  I just don't think there is much of a market willing to patronize any one person's self-expression without any demands.
- swatcoder 4y ago
  What’s all this about systems and leverage and wrangling external things to one’s own will? It sounds like they just want to paint what they want, the way they want, and now do exactly that. All this other stuff sounds like projection of your own concerns, and in pretty unfriendly language to boot.
- hyperpallium2 4y ago
  The Story of a Fisherman https://www.highview.com.au/the-story-of-a-fisherman/ https://www.highview.com.au/the-story-of-a-fisherman/
tomcam 4y ago
That’s a beautiful story. It’s so good that you found peace. I have a child who is enormously gifted and could probably follow precisely the same career path you described. I fear/hope that child will make the same decisions you did.
- analog31 4y ago
  Every parent hopes their kid will pursue their dreams as a hobby while learning to code. Speaking as a parent of two such kids, good luck with that. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.
- nbzso 4y ago
  I have no kids and cannot reflect on the fear/hope part. Life is too complex to be predicted in general, we choose our own path alone. All that can attest to is that in my darkest moments, painting has given me a shelter and hope. When I paint, I completely loose sense of time. Actually, after some hiccups to this day I use an alarm to limit my sessions.:)
  - tomcam 4y ago
    > All that can attest to is that in my darkest moments, painting has given me a shelter and hope. When I paint, I completely lose sense of time. That's me with programming. I would of course love to links to your art if you're up to it
    - nbzso 4y ago
      Thanks for your request, I am working on a show (series of experimental paintings) but I have a principle of not sharing on HN personal stuff. In this way, when I speak here, I have no filter and no self-censuring mechanism is applied.:)
matheusmoreira 4y ago
> I don't paint for you. I paint for myself. It's part of my life. > A place where there are no compromises, no demands, no expectations, no projections, no assessments, no tasks, no metrics, no applause and no glory. > A place where I am happy. I have immense respect for you. I did something along these lines too: switched fields so I could write software for myself. The same reasons you listed resonated deeply with me.
- sushisource 4y ago
  Can you elaborate a bit? When I have a project I'm really exited about working on I'm productive and it feels great, when it's something I have to do for the business but I don't love the project, I'm slow and doing the work is a grind. So, I think about how I could only write the software I want to write a decent amount. What did you do?
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    I feel the same way. I have attention deficit disorder: it's really hard for me to concentrate on "boring" tasks. However, I actually have hyperattention when it comes to stuff I find interesting. I've been programming since I was 14, I really love computers but the business aspect really turns me off. I can do it well if I need to but it just doesn't interest me like the operating systems, programming languages, virtual machines... So when the time came for me to choose between a career in technology or something else like medical or law school, I chose something else. I'm somewhat comfortable now, still developing my career. I come here every day to read and talk about technology and sometimes I'll even publish a project on GitHub. Still wonder what it would have been like had I made a different choice.
  - psi75 4y ago
    When I have a project I'm really exited about working on I'm productive and it feels great, when it's something I have to do for the business but I don't love the project, I'm slow and doing the work is a grind. This is completely normal. There is a conflict between what you know on a deep level and the false consciousness you are required to uphold, and that you do uphold by completing the work. The ground truth is that, even though your boss probably isn't a bad or mean person, he too has a boss, who has a boss, and following the chain one almost always finds a vested interest in a corrupt status quo whereby a small set of hereditarily connected rent-seekers who stifle progress and don't care about anything but expanding their own wealth and power. You can make money by collecting small donations from normal, decent people, but there aren't that many to go around, because the fact is that normal humans have almost no economic freedom. Modulo a rounding error, all money is blood money: it comes either from wealthy people and corporations who have evil intentions, or from governments that might have decent intentions but have been corrupted by evil psychopaths from the private-sector elite. The fact that rich people are paying us to do something is as strong a signal as there could be that what we're doing is poisoning the world, possibly in a way we don't fully understand. Plus, any time we do something as a subordinate, we know that if we perform too well, we are sending a signal to people who are humiliating us (even if in a superficially professional and kind way) that treating us as subordinates works, and encouraging them to humiliate us even more. The only reason the system doesn't collapse in an afternoon is that we're indoctrinated into bourgeois false consciousness. But something tells me you knew that already.
zupreme 4y ago
What you said at the end deeply resonated with me. I made a similar decision regarding music years ago and since giving up all aspirations of commercial success from music, the quality of what I am able to create has blossomed - and then tanks again the moment I so much as THINK of making a track to put up for sale. So I came to the similar conclusion of playing only for myself and my family, and I am much happier with music as a result. I recommend to anyone working on talent-development to try, the next time inspiration strikes, creating your next piece of art for an audience of one (Self) and see what happens. The results may surprise you.
onetokeoverthe 4y ago
boredemployee 4y ago
I somehow relate. Art was my love/joy for many years, then it became my business and I think I lost every joy I had on it

by nbzso 4y ago

deathanatos 4y ago

I can't paint for myself: > the nature of [needing to put bread on the table] is energy depleting zapping any creative juices needed for the concentration and initiative to produce content. Let alone something of high-quality that doesn’t exude fatigue.

JoeyBananas 4y ago

> I don't paint for you. I paint for myself. It's part of my life. A place where there are no compromises, no demands, no expectations, no projections, no assessments, no tasks, no metrics, no applause and no glory. That sounds idealistic to the point of foolishness. The end result of your decision to quit art was that you had to get a job as a graphic designer. Doesn't that achieve even less of your vision? A lot of people encounter this same dilemma: "do I want to conform to an imperfect system in order to stay in my chosen profession, or should I quit?" By choosing to quit, you are giving up all of your leverage. You will be replaced by the next "yes man" who doesn't share your vision. If you stick with it, you can continue to nudge the system in the direction you want.

disantlor 4y ago
unless you conclude that art and the “system” are incompatible on some fundamental way. i’ve arrived at a similar place as OP anyway
progman32 4y ago
There is nothing in the laws of nature that require "rational actor" application of leverage. Money does not buy happiness. It seems their previous job directly conflicted with their stated goal of expressing themselves, and the new graphic design gig does not. To me that achieved quite a lot.
- nbzso 4y ago
  Correct. Creating design and products serves others. Painting is personal. In my view, this is the difference between art and design. When creating art, I share my personal vision and emotions. Design is 'function over form', the goal of design is the UX and achieving a set of goals. The successful design/product is free from the designer's and creators egos, its purpose is to serve. You can use artistic tools and interpretation in graphic design as a medium, but you must deliver a balanced result within a set of rules and goals.
jhanschoo 4y ago
I just don't think there is much of a market willing to patronize any one person's self-expression without any demands.
swatcoder 4y ago
What’s all this about systems and leverage and wrangling external things to one’s own will? It sounds like they just want to paint what they want, the way they want, and now do exactly that. All this other stuff sounds like projection of your own concerns, and in pretty unfriendly language to boot.
hyperpallium2 4y ago
The Story of a Fisherman https://www.highview.com.au/the-story-of-a-fisherman/ https://www.highview.com.au/the-story-of-a-fisherman/

tomcam 4y ago

That’s a beautiful story. It’s so good that you found peace. I have a child who is enormously gifted and could probably follow precisely the same career path you described. I fear/hope that child will make the same decisions you did.

analog31 4y ago
Every parent hopes their kid will pursue their dreams as a hobby while learning to code. Speaking as a parent of two such kids, good luck with that. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.
nbzso 4y ago
I have no kids and cannot reflect on the fear/hope part. Life is too complex to be predicted in general, we choose our own path alone. All that can attest to is that in my darkest moments, painting has given me a shelter and hope. When I paint, I completely loose sense of time. Actually, after some hiccups to this day I use an alarm to limit my sessions.:)
- tomcam 4y ago
  > All that can attest to is that in my darkest moments, painting has given me a shelter and hope. When I paint, I completely lose sense of time. That's me with programming. I would of course love to links to your art if you're up to it
  - nbzso 4y ago
    Thanks for your request, I am working on a show (series of experimental paintings) but I have a principle of not sharing on HN personal stuff. In this way, when I speak here, I have no filter and no self-censuring mechanism is applied.:)

matheusmoreira 4y ago

> I don't paint for you. I paint for myself. It's part of my life. > A place where there are no compromises, no demands, no expectations, no projections, no assessments, no tasks, no metrics, no applause and no glory. > A place where I am happy. I have immense respect for you. I did something along these lines too: switched fields so I could write software for myself. The same reasons you listed resonated deeply with me.

sushisource 4y ago
Can you elaborate a bit? When I have a project I'm really exited about working on I'm productive and it feels great, when it's something I have to do for the business but I don't love the project, I'm slow and doing the work is a grind. So, I think about how I could only write the software I want to write a decent amount. What did you do?
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  I feel the same way. I have attention deficit disorder: it's really hard for me to concentrate on "boring" tasks. However, I actually have hyperattention when it comes to stuff I find interesting. I've been programming since I was 14, I really love computers but the business aspect really turns me off. I can do it well if I need to but it just doesn't interest me like the operating systems, programming languages, virtual machines... So when the time came for me to choose between a career in technology or something else like medical or law school, I chose something else. I'm somewhat comfortable now, still developing my career. I come here every day to read and talk about technology and sometimes I'll even publish a project on GitHub. Still wonder what it would have been like had I made a different choice.
- psi75 4y ago
  When I have a project I'm really exited about working on I'm productive and it feels great, when it's something I have to do for the business but I don't love the project, I'm slow and doing the work is a grind. This is completely normal. There is a conflict between what you know on a deep level and the false consciousness you are required to uphold, and that you do uphold by completing the work. The ground truth is that, even though your boss probably isn't a bad or mean person, he too has a boss, who has a boss, and following the chain one almost always finds a vested interest in a corrupt status quo whereby a small set of hereditarily connected rent-seekers who stifle progress and don't care about anything but expanding their own wealth and power. You can make money by collecting small donations from normal, decent people, but there aren't that many to go around, because the fact is that normal humans have almost no economic freedom. Modulo a rounding error, all money is blood money: it comes either from wealthy people and corporations who have evil intentions, or from governments that might have decent intentions but have been corrupted by evil psychopaths from the private-sector elite. The fact that rich people are paying us to do something is as strong a signal as there could be that what we're doing is poisoning the world, possibly in a way we don't fully understand. Plus, any time we do something as a subordinate, we know that if we perform too well, we are sending a signal to people who are humiliating us (even if in a superficially professional and kind way) that treating us as subordinates works, and encouraging them to humiliate us even more. The only reason the system doesn't collapse in an afternoon is that we're indoctrinated into bourgeois false consciousness. But something tells me you knew that already.

zupreme 4y ago

What you said at the end deeply resonated with me. I made a similar decision regarding music years ago and since giving up all aspirations of commercial success from music, the quality of what I am able to create has blossomed - and then tanks again the moment I so much as THINK of making a track to put up for sale. So I came to the similar conclusion of playing only for myself and my family, and I am much happier with music as a result. I recommend to anyone working on talent-development to try, the next time inspiration strikes, creating your next piece of art for an audience of one (Self) and see what happens. The results may surprise you.

onetokeoverthe 4y ago

boredemployee 4y ago

I somehow relate. Art was my love/joy for many years, then it became my business and I think I lost every joy I had on it