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> but also a stopgap as Ford resets its entire software strategy around Android in partnership with Google. This doesn’t seem like a good idea because there ar

> but also a stopgap as Ford resets its entire software strategy around Android in partnership with Google. This doesn’t seem like a good idea because there are Android people and iOS people. Alienating a large swath of customers is not a good idea. That and I don’t want Google monitoring all my car data. One of the big reasons I don’t have a Tesla is their data policy. But I’d rather Tesla have my data than Google because at least it won’t be linked to everything else about me. Also, I want to drive cars for 10 or 20 years. Google has never maintained Android for that long. I’d rather just have an embedded os written and maintained by ford (that doesn’t suck).

ledauphin 4y ago
no car company "maintains" their embedded software, either. updates do happen, but there are no guarantees, no transparency, and essentially no aftermarket options for most modern cars.
- emkoemko 4y ago
  GMC wanted me to pay like 200-300$ to update the firmware.... to fix a bug i had with my truck.... i look forward to android :)
WorldMaker 4y ago
> This doesn’t seem like a good idea because there are Android people and iOS people Android Automotive (the "base OS" that's not even really "Android" in the way that you think of it from phones; the impression I have gathered is that it is a separate embedded Linux sharing only a few parts and iterating in a different pace) that Ford is moving to still supports Apple CarPlay as well as it supports Android Auto (the Apple CarPlay competitor). It's another fun place where Google's branding strategy confuses way more than it helps by having very similar names for very different products, in this case Android Automotive !== Android Auto. But yeah, the other complaints are valid: Android Automotive is still so new we have no idea if Google is truly in it for the long haul or if that's another badly named brand eventually likely to end up in the graveyard. I don't think we know how much data Google will be monitoring from it either.
- hedora 4y ago
  As long as Google will pay to recall and repair the truck the day they stop security updates, and also guarantee that it makes zero connections to their servers, the arrangement you describe is no worse than the status quo.
  - kernal 4y ago
    Why would Google pay for something Ford is entirely responsible for? Ford is rolling a customized version of Android Automotive, as all car OEMs are. Do you blame Google for Samsung not updating their phones?
    - hedora 4y ago
      Of course I blame Google for Samsung not providing upgrades to a Google-branded OS. Do you blame Dell when Microsoft screws up the start menu?
      - kernal 4y ago
        I must have mussed the part where Dell compiled the Windows OS source code and created their own OS. Additionally, do you blame Debian when Ubuntu isn't updated? According to your flawed logic, you do.
        WorldMaker 4y ago
        > I must have mussed the part where Dell compiled the Windows OS source code and created their own OS. We don't know yet how much Ford plans to/is working to customize Android Automotive, just that they said they are customizing it. It may be pretty likely that they only plan to customize it about as far as Dell or Samsung do as the two above examples: change some logos, some default wallpaper, auto-install some different apps. None of those require recompiling Windows or Android from source (respectively) today, and there's reasonable assumptions that Google would intend Android Automotive to be similarly customizable by car vendors in ways that cellphone vendors customize Android today, so the analogy to Samsung may be very directly comparable. > Additionally, do you blame Debian when Ubuntu isn't updated? I have in the past. At one point when I was regularly using Ubuntu there were several apps that I couldn't easily install because the chain of blame was directly: the right library version for a dependency is not in Ubuntu's distribution; it's not in Ubuntu's distribution because it's not yet in Debian Unstable because it was causing problems in Debian Canary though that may have been because of other things Debian was trying to integrate around it. In such a case, that's definitely Debian's fault that Ubuntu wasn't updated in the way that I wanted it to be at that time. That's not flawed logic at all. Since then Ubuntu has done a lot more to isolate itself from Debian integration issues and the PPAs and Snap communities have done even more to expand what's possible without needing a full distro upgrade, but that doesn't mean there haven't been times when it was directly useful to point a finger at Debian rather than Ubuntu for an update problem.
natch 4y ago
What's not to like about Tesla's data policy? I mean, for one thing, they don't have any of your data unless you opt in, and they don't resort to any tricks or pressure to get you to opt in. And even if you do opt in, it is not linked to any identifier for you or your car. How do you perceive that as a bad thing? Or were you just mistaken about their policy?
- prepend 4y ago
  Based on friends cars, you either opt in or don’t get any features like nav, autopilot, and even music. I remember during a crash investigation, Tesla released data on a customer before they gave it to the family and the NHTSA. I perceive that as a bad thing.
  - natch 4y ago
    > Based on friends cars, you either opt in or don’t get any features like nav, autopilot, and even music. Not true.

ledauphin 4y ago

no car company "maintains" their embedded software, either. updates do happen, but there are no guarantees, no transparency, and essentially no aftermarket options for most modern cars.

emkoemko 4y ago
GMC wanted me to pay like 200-300$ to update the firmware.... to fix a bug i had with my truck.... i look forward to android :)

WorldMaker 4y ago

> This doesn’t seem like a good idea because there are Android people and iOS people Android Automotive (the "base OS" that's not even really "Android" in the way that you think of it from phones; the impression I have gathered is that it is a separate embedded Linux sharing only a few parts and iterating in a different pace) that Ford is moving to still supports Apple CarPlay as well as it supports Android Auto (the Apple CarPlay competitor). It's another fun place where Google's branding strategy confuses way more than it helps by having very similar names for very different products, in this case Android Automotive !== Android Auto. But yeah, the other complaints are valid: Android Automotive is still so new we have no idea if Google is truly in it for the long haul or if that's another badly named brand eventually likely to end up in the graveyard. I don't think we know how much data Google will be monitoring from it either.

hedora 4y ago
As long as Google will pay to recall and repair the truck the day they stop security updates, and also guarantee that it makes zero connections to their servers, the arrangement you describe is no worse than the status quo.
- kernal 4y ago
  Why would Google pay for something Ford is entirely responsible for? Ford is rolling a customized version of Android Automotive, as all car OEMs are. Do you blame Google for Samsung not updating their phones?
  - hedora 4y ago
    Of course I blame Google for Samsung not providing upgrades to a Google-branded OS. Do you blame Dell when Microsoft screws up the start menu?
    - kernal 4y ago
      I must have mussed the part where Dell compiled the Windows OS source code and created their own OS. Additionally, do you blame Debian when Ubuntu isn't updated? According to your flawed logic, you do.
      - WorldMaker 4y ago
        > I must have mussed the part where Dell compiled the Windows OS source code and created their own OS. We don't know yet how much Ford plans to/is working to customize Android Automotive, just that they said they are customizing it. It may be pretty likely that they only plan to customize it about as far as Dell or Samsung do as the two above examples: change some logos, some default wallpaper, auto-install some different apps. None of those require recompiling Windows or Android from source (respectively) today, and there's reasonable assumptions that Google would intend Android Automotive to be similarly customizable by car vendors in ways that cellphone vendors customize Android today, so the analogy to Samsung may be very directly comparable. > Additionally, do you blame Debian when Ubuntu isn't updated? I have in the past. At one point when I was regularly using Ubuntu there were several apps that I couldn't easily install because the chain of blame was directly: the right library version for a dependency is not in Ubuntu's distribution; it's not in Ubuntu's distribution because it's not yet in Debian Unstable because it was causing problems in Debian Canary though that may have been because of other things Debian was trying to integrate around it. In such a case, that's definitely Debian's fault that Ubuntu wasn't updated in the way that I wanted it to be at that time. That's not flawed logic at all. Since then Ubuntu has done a lot more to isolate itself from Debian integration issues and the PPAs and Snap communities have done even more to expand what's possible without needing a full distro upgrade, but that doesn't mean there haven't been times when it was directly useful to point a finger at Debian rather than Ubuntu for an update problem.

natch 4y ago

What's not to like about Tesla's data policy? I mean, for one thing, they don't have any of your data unless you opt in, and they don't resort to any tricks or pressure to get you to opt in. And even if you do opt in, it is not linked to any identifier for you or your car. How do you perceive that as a bad thing? Or were you just mistaken about their policy?

prepend 4y ago
Based on friends cars, you either opt in or don’t get any features like nav, autopilot, and even music. I remember during a crash investigation, Tesla released data on a customer before they gave it to the family and the NHTSA. I perceive that as a bad thing.
- natch 4y ago
  > Based on friends cars, you either opt in or don’t get any features like nav, autopilot, and even music. Not true.