4 ms·

This won't age very well, just like all the other "bitcoin is dead" posts made during bear markets. Also, El Salvador seems to be "up" if their whole economy i

by Geee 4y ago

This won't age very well, just like all the other "bitcoin is dead" posts made during bear markets. Also, El Salvador seems to be "up" if their whole economy is measured, and that's mostly because of their Bitcoin strategy. Especially, their tourism is up 81% compared to pre-pandemic levels. https://cointelegraph.com/news/tourists-flock-to-el-salvador-despite-bitcoin-bear-market https://cointelegraph.com/news/tourists-flock-to-el-salvador...

Wata2 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
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kelnos 4y ago
How is their tourism related to their Bitcoin strategy. I expect this site, and those like it, will age quite well. Frankly, it doesn't matter if BTC is up in 10 years. Remember the saying: the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. Nation-states aren't immune to this phenomenon.
- rcoveson 4y ago
  > How is their tourism related to their Bitcoin strategy. Why are we talking about El Salvador right now? What's getting it in the news? What's getting people to read its Wikipedia page? What's reminding people it exists?
  - cr__ 4y ago
    They could probably get in the news by lighting a pile of cash on fire too
- otto_ortega 4y ago
  As a Savadorean: It is not... the RECOVERY on tourism is most likely due the relaxation on rules regarding COVID-19, a negative COVID-19 test or even proof of vaccination is no longer required to enter the country. You no longer are required to use a mask to enter restaurants or pretty much any public place. That alone was enough motive to entice enough people (particularly Antivax Salvadoreans leaving abroad) to come visit and cause that rebound on pre-pandemic levels. But that serves no good to the agenda of the pro-bitcoin, maxis and the goverment itself, so...
googlryas 4y ago
The article you link says there were 1.1M visitors so far. It also says "thousands of Bitcoiners have made the trip". I'm not really sure where you're getting the idea that tourists and the economy is up due to bitcoin, versus some other factors.
paulgb 4y ago
That article says: > The report by the WTO states that some “Central American destinations have the best results compared to 2019,” including El Salvador at +81% compared with 2019, or pre-pandemic levels. It's not clear in the source article where that figure comes from. When translated to English, the source article[1] says: > In fact, several islands in the Caribbean, as well as Asia and the Pacific, along with some small European and Central American destinations have the best results compared to 2019: Seychelles (-27%), Bulgaria and Curaçao (both -20%), El Salvador (-19%), Serbia and Maldives (both -13%), Dominican Republic (-11%), Albania (-7% ) and Andorra (-3%). Bosnia and Herzegovina (+2%) even exceeded pre-pandemic levels. Based on the quotation, it seems like that's the paragraph being referenced, but the figures don't match at all. [1] https://www.unwto.org/es/news/turismo-inicia-2022-fuerte-pero-se-enfrenta-a-nuevas-incertidumbres https://www.unwto.org/es/news/turismo-inicia-2022-fuerte-per...
- layer8 4y ago
  The +81% corresponds to the -19%. You just need to ignore the “+”. What they seem to be saying is that, while only at 81% of pre-pandemic levels, El Salvador is part of the group of countries having the best (least worst) deltas to 2019.
  - paulgb 4y ago
    That would explain where the number comes from, but it's an incorrect and very misleading way of presenting the data, hence GP (reasonably but incorrectly) interpreting it as meaning that tourism is up from pre-pandemic levels. You're right that this would be accurate if you ignore the "+", but they made the decision to include it, which gives the data a completely different meaning.
    - layer8 4y ago
      Of course; I was just helping the GP to understand what the article is trying to (mis)represent.
    - otto_ortega 4y ago
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> their tourism is up 81% compared to pre-pandemic levels "Global international tourist arrivals more than doubled (+130%) in January 2022 compared to 2021," with "Europe (+199%) and the Americas (+97%)" posting the strongest results [1]. El Salvador's tourism numbers are weaker than its neighbors'. (Explosions of gang violence don't help [2].) [1] https://www.unwto.org/news/tourism-enjoys-strong-start-to-2022-while-facing-new-uncertainties https://www.unwto.org/news/tourism-enjoys-strong-start-to-20... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/27/world/americas/el-salvador-gang-violence.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/27/world/americas/el-salvado...
- Geee 4y ago
  They started a crackdown on those gangs after that event, and have arrested almost 50,000 gang members so far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Salvadoran_gang_crackdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Salvadoran_gang_crackdown
  - deleted 4y ago
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  - rideontime 4y ago
    If you believe Bukele's numbers, sure.
lottin 4y ago
> that's mostly because of their Bitcoin strategy You don't know that, do you?
mrstone 4y ago
If I had to guess, tourism would be up because COVID calmed down a bit so people are a bit more willing to travel now. I don't see the connection to BTC
- leesalminen 4y ago
  Tourism to Costa Rica hasn’t seen the same recovery trajectory to El Salvador, even though Costa Rica historically has been much more popular than El Salvador. IIRC, CR is still down 20% since COVID started and ES is up 20%.
deleted 4y ago
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Tao3300 4y ago
How so? Either it'll say "NO!" or "YES!" I guess it won't age well if what we call El Salvador today no longer exists.
otto_ortega 4y ago
As a Salvadorean I have to say the "El Salvador seems to be up" argument is bullshit, I suspect you are already aware given that your source for claiming "tourism is up 81%" is Cointelegraph... but just to clarify those numbers that the goverment and its propaganda machine made sure to spread: 1 - It is not growth it is RECOVERY, tourism is back to 81% of its pre-pandemic levels. Even the own goverment sources say that if you read the pages below the propaganda [1]. So no, tourism is not up compared to pre-pandemic levels, instead we recovered 8 out of every 10 visitors we had before the pandemic... 2 - No, it is not because of Bitcoin. I understand if you are pro-bitcoin, that's alright. But reality in here is that pretty much no business is accepting Bitcoin any more, even plenty of the business that did accepted it when the law passed have gone back to not taking it. The large lines you used to see on the Bitcoin ATMs are gone now that pretty much everyone that wanted to claim the $30 USD bonus have got it (and the overwhelming majority of them converted it to cash immediately... ) and the Bitcoin ATMs are as empty as a ghost town except for the occasional BTC enthusiast/speculator that uses it to cash out some money. I live here... But if you believe I'm wrong or biased, I invite you to come here and check things for yourself, you may be up for a reality check regarding the goverment propaganda, but you will still have a good time doing tourism. [1] https://www.presidencia.gob.sv/el-salvador-es-el-segundo-pais-de-la-region-en-recuperar-el-turismo-que-se-perdio-por-la-pandemia-confirma-la-omt/ https://www.presidencia.gob.sv/el-salvador-es-el-segundo-pai...
- Geee 4y ago
  Yeah, it seems that the tourism number was mispresented. Still, Bitcoin strategy put El Salvador on the global map, and I think it'll be positive for the country in the long run. In the history books, El Salvador will always be the first country to adopt bitcoin. I'm pro-bitcoin, but I'm pretty grounded on reality and I never expected it to transform the country overnight. It's a long game, which El Salvador is currently leading compared to other countries.

by Geee 4y ago

Wata2 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kelnos 4y ago

How is their tourism related to their Bitcoin strategy. I expect this site, and those like it, will age quite well. Frankly, it doesn't matter if BTC is up in 10 years. Remember the saying: the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. Nation-states aren't immune to this phenomenon.

rcoveson 4y ago
> How is their tourism related to their Bitcoin strategy. Why are we talking about El Salvador right now? What's getting it in the news? What's getting people to read its Wikipedia page? What's reminding people it exists?
- cr__ 4y ago
  They could probably get in the news by lighting a pile of cash on fire too
otto_ortega 4y ago
As a Savadorean: It is not... the RECOVERY on tourism is most likely due the relaxation on rules regarding COVID-19, a negative COVID-19 test or even proof of vaccination is no longer required to enter the country. You no longer are required to use a mask to enter restaurants or pretty much any public place. That alone was enough motive to entice enough people (particularly Antivax Salvadoreans leaving abroad) to come visit and cause that rebound on pre-pandemic levels. But that serves no good to the agenda of the pro-bitcoin, maxis and the goverment itself, so...

googlryas 4y ago

The article you link says there were 1.1M visitors so far. It also says "thousands of Bitcoiners have made the trip". I'm not really sure where you're getting the idea that tourists and the economy is up due to bitcoin, versus some other factors.

paulgb 4y ago

That article says: > The report by the WTO states that some “Central American destinations have the best results compared to 2019,” including El Salvador at +81% compared with 2019, or pre-pandemic levels. It's not clear in the source article where that figure comes from. When translated to English, the source article[1] says: > In fact, several islands in the Caribbean, as well as Asia and the Pacific, along with some small European and Central American destinations have the best results compared to 2019: Seychelles (-27%), Bulgaria and Curaçao (both -20%), El Salvador (-19%), Serbia and Maldives (both -13%), Dominican Republic (-11%), Albania (-7% ) and Andorra (-3%). Bosnia and Herzegovina (+2%) even exceeded pre-pandemic levels. Based on the quotation, it seems like that's the paragraph being referenced, but the figures don't match at all. [1] https://www.unwto.org/es/news/turismo-inicia-2022-fuerte-pero-se-enfrenta-a-nuevas-incertidumbres https://www.unwto.org/es/news/turismo-inicia-2022-fuerte-per...

layer8 4y ago
The +81% corresponds to the -19%. You just need to ignore the “+”. What they seem to be saying is that, while only at 81% of pre-pandemic levels, El Salvador is part of the group of countries having the best (least worst) deltas to 2019.
- paulgb 4y ago
  That would explain where the number comes from, but it's an incorrect and very misleading way of presenting the data, hence GP (reasonably but incorrectly) interpreting it as meaning that tourism is up from pre-pandemic levels. You're right that this would be accurate if you ignore the "+", but they made the decision to include it, which gives the data a completely different meaning.
  - layer8 4y ago
    Of course; I was just helping the GP to understand what the article is trying to (mis)represent.
  - otto_ortega 4y ago

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> their tourism is up 81% compared to pre-pandemic levels "Global international tourist arrivals more than doubled (+130%) in January 2022 compared to 2021," with "Europe (+199%) and the Americas (+97%)" posting the strongest results [1]. El Salvador's tourism numbers are weaker than its neighbors'. (Explosions of gang violence don't help [2].) [1] https://www.unwto.org/news/tourism-enjoys-strong-start-to-2022-while-facing-new-uncertainties https://www.unwto.org/news/tourism-enjoys-strong-start-to-20... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/27/world/americas/el-salvador-gang-violence.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/27/world/americas/el-salvado...

Geee 4y ago
They started a crackdown on those gangs after that event, and have arrested almost 50,000 gang members so far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Salvadoran_gang_crackdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Salvadoran_gang_crackdown
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- rideontime 4y ago
  If you believe Bukele's numbers, sure.

lottin 4y ago

> that's mostly because of their Bitcoin strategy You don't know that, do you?

mrstone 4y ago

If I had to guess, tourism would be up because COVID calmed down a bit so people are a bit more willing to travel now. I don't see the connection to BTC

leesalminen 4y ago
Tourism to Costa Rica hasn’t seen the same recovery trajectory to El Salvador, even though Costa Rica historically has been much more popular than El Salvador. IIRC, CR is still down 20% since COVID started and ES is up 20%.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Tao3300 4y ago

How so? Either it'll say "NO!" or "YES!" I guess it won't age well if what we call El Salvador today no longer exists.

otto_ortega 4y ago

As a Salvadorean I have to say the "El Salvador seems to be up" argument is bullshit, I suspect you are already aware given that your source for claiming "tourism is up 81%" is Cointelegraph... but just to clarify those numbers that the goverment and its propaganda machine made sure to spread: 1 - It is not growth it is RECOVERY, tourism is back to 81% of its pre-pandemic levels. Even the own goverment sources say that if you read the pages below the propaganda [1]. So no, tourism is not up compared to pre-pandemic levels, instead we recovered 8 out of every 10 visitors we had before the pandemic... 2 - No, it is not because of Bitcoin. I understand if you are pro-bitcoin, that's alright. But reality in here is that pretty much no business is accepting Bitcoin any more, even plenty of the business that did accepted it when the law passed have gone back to not taking it. The large lines you used to see on the Bitcoin ATMs are gone now that pretty much everyone that wanted to claim the $30 USD bonus have got it (and the overwhelming majority of them converted it to cash immediately... ) and the Bitcoin ATMs are as empty as a ghost town except for the occasional BTC enthusiast/speculator that uses it to cash out some money. I live here... But if you believe I'm wrong or biased, I invite you to come here and check things for yourself, you may be up for a reality check regarding the goverment propaganda, but you will still have a good time doing tourism. [1] https://www.presidencia.gob.sv/el-salvador-es-el-segundo-pais-de-la-region-en-recuperar-el-turismo-que-se-perdio-por-la-pandemia-confirma-la-omt/ https://www.presidencia.gob.sv/el-salvador-es-el-segundo-pai...

Geee 4y ago
Yeah, it seems that the tourism number was mispresented. Still, Bitcoin strategy put El Salvador on the global map, and I think it'll be positive for the country in the long run. In the history books, El Salvador will always be the first country to adopt bitcoin. I'm pro-bitcoin, but I'm pretty grounded on reality and I never expected it to transform the country overnight. It's a long game, which El Salvador is currently leading compared to other countries.