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It's incredibly frustrating to me that buying a vehicle with a pushbutton, working, reliable interface is becoming increasingly impossible to do. Why is UX so h

It's incredibly frustrating to me that buying a vehicle with a pushbutton, working, reliable interface is becoming increasingly impossible to do. Why is UX so horrifically bad in the vehicle space? Is it poor management decisions or a shortage of good UX engineers? I get that lumping everything into the touchscreen can be a cheaper option to build, but I'd GLADLY pay for a different option. I don't understand it.

mint2 4y ago
Cars seating is horrible and bad for backs. Trends, tradition and short term cost decide most design considerations not practicality or what’s best.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  Depends on the car and the person. I have back problems and almost no office chairs are usable for me. I can easily drive 10 hours in my car with no issues. Sometimes, my back feels better after a drive that long.
- boc 4y ago
  I wouldn't say this is universally true. Lexus and Volvo tend to make amazing car seats. I say this after driving 2000 miles last week and not feeling a thing in my old Lexus GX.
bowsamic 4y ago
The entire auto industry is driven by hype and trends rather than functionality
- 7952 4y ago
  Yes. Just look at the appalling forward blind spot on a lot of trucks and SUVs. Or the way cars have become taller at the expense of aerodynamics.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    People like sitting higher up, or do not like being seated lower, or so much lower, than others. It might also be safer to be in a higher up car in the event of a collision. Pretty much all the families I know with young kids and toddlers has a full size SUV. Every time I ask why they did not get a minivan such as Odyssey or Sienna, every response is they like SUVs and do not want to sit lower in the minivan. Even though the minivan has better fuel economy, seats more people with more legroom, and has more cargo space, the answer is still SUV is cooler than minivans. I even see families who live with elderly parents prefer to drive two SUVs (or 1 SUV and 1 pickup truck) somewhere with 3 to 4 people in each, rather than have one minivan to be able to transport all 7 or 8 at the same time. And these same families growing up went everywhere in minivans because it was the most economic way, but now that they can afford SUVs, that is what they choose to use.
    - 7952 4y ago
      I know two couples who both started out with small efficient cars. And then had to upgrade because they could not fit a stroller in the back. It feels like car companies just want to have skews that are intentionally compromised to push people into the next tier. When most people just need a compact sedan.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        Yet most people who can afford to, choose to buy larger vehicles than they need. Car manufacturers are not shaping people’s desires, they are simply delivering them what they want. A Corolla/civic continues to be available for purchase. Yet people want to sit higher up, so you see the vast increase in sales for RAV4/CRV. https://www.statista.com/statistics/276506/change-in-us-car-demand-by-vehicle-type/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/276506/change-in-us-car-...
        WorldMaker 4y ago
        The corolla/civic buyers seem to be on a longer planning horizon than the RAV4/CRV buyers. It's tough to compare sales apples to sales oranges when new car buyers on average buy sedans on 10-15 year schedules and SUVs on roughly 5 year schedules. That planning horizon differential alone is enough to explain why car manufacturers would be greater incentivized to iterate on SUVs faster than sedans and include more features. Iteration and feature differentials will contribute as much to sales choices as "sit higher up" will, acting as a reinforcement in the cycle/spiral towards larger vehicles. Car manufacturers aren't incentivized enough to lengthen their own planning horizons or otherwise better accommodate "sensible" sedan drivers, and it becomes very easy to pretend they don't exist and chase the short-term profits of the faster cycle time (especially when pushed by quarterly-earnings focused shareholders).
bjelkeman-again 4y ago
I think it is because A)Good UX is hard and there is a shortage of people who have experience a mixed hardware/software UX. B) Car companies are rather old fashioned in setting their priorities. They haven’t caught on yet at management level that the modern car is a different beast and needs different priorities when designing and engineering. C) A car company is big. It takes a long time to change, and a lot of people are really sceptical and don’t believe the future needs to be different.
bink 4y ago
It reminds me of cell phone interfaces back before the iPhone. I had high hopes that Carplay would motivate the vendors to put some effort into their own interfaces but sadly that doesn't appear to have happened.
bonestamp2 4y ago
A lot of automakers are chasing Tesla's one screen design -- they're so envious of the cost savings there. Except the Germans, they're still putting in lots of buttons and knobs -- my next car will likely be German because they seem to understand what people actually want.
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  Buy it quick. Even the Macan has a stupid piano-black console touch panel in its current generation.
  - bonestamp2 4y ago
    Ya, that's the fault of journalists always complaining about "blank" panels. The former Porsche solution to that was better than this new panel.
  - ct0 4y ago
    My previous version Porsche (958) has a button for newly every function. Its very similar to a small plane and it 100% allows me to focus on the road and whats important without looking at the change of function.
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      Exactly, same for my 95B.2. I bought it right after the 95B.3 spy shots came out. No regrets.
- qbrass 4y ago
  Hope it's not a new Golf. VW did more damage to their reputation with that interior than from Dieselgate.
  - GoOnThenDoTell 4y ago
    What happened to thr interior?
TylerE 4y ago
None of that. Costs. Buttons are expensive, and additional points of failure. Cheaper to just cram everything into a touchscreen.
- guntars 4y ago
  Yet the cars are more expensive than ever. Nah, it’s a bet by the management that people don’t actually choose a car based on the polish of the infotainment system.
  - sliken 4y ago
    Maybe not, but I've done the opposite. The BMW, Subaru, and Fords I tried had terrible interfaces and I ruled them out. In particular BMW's i-drive seems to be hated by many. Tesla on the other hand has buttons for many things, horn, turn signals, activate the windshield wipers for a moment (I use auto that handles most needs), engage cruise control, set following distance when using cruise control, high beams, pause music, music volume, etc. Sure seat heaters, interior temp, ac, defrosting etc require touch screen use (or leaving them on auto), but those are emergencies and not much different than having to hit one of 8 buttons/dials on a center console. Especially since most are single touch, not touch -> select menu -> hit button. While I find the above not annoying I really love the 15" screen that devotes the majority of the screen to things around the car (lane markers, cars, motorcycles, traffic cones, trucks, pedestrians, etc) and the map (with traffic). If the car sees a problem it blinks that object red, which I find helpful. Sure if I want I can get an inch for the current song. But generally I feel more situationally aware with a nice big nav screen up. On more than one occasion I've seen motorcycles splitting lanes behind me because of motion on the screen before I notice the noise or see them in the mirrors. I also really miss the current speed limit on the screen when I switch cars. I also really like being able to say "play pink floyd", or "navigate to ...".
  - TylerE 4y ago
    You're not really arguing with logic, there. How do you know a car with lots of buttons wouldn't cost even more?
akira2501 4y ago
> Why is UX so horrifically bad in the vehicle space? It used to be that vehicle radio units were entirely replaceable. There was a relatively healthy aftermarket, and quite a few shops that would actually do the installations for you. There used to be a lot more competition here, but I think with the general increase in quality of speaker systems combined with smart phones and the much higher level of system integration through the head unit effectively killed it. Hence.. you get what you buy. In a sense, the manufacturer has a monopoly on your dash that they didn't traditionally have.
jackmott 4y ago
nine_k 4y ago
I wonder if third-party infotainment with buttons and otherwise ergonomic, reliable UI is legally possible. If so, it could be a viable business?
- alex_suzuki 4y ago
  Interesting idea. I just don’t see carmakers giving up previous real-estate for a third-party solution.
- isametry 4y ago
  The upcoming "next generation" of Apple CarPlay strives to be exactly that: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/apples-next-generation-of-carplay-plans-to-take-over-every-screen-in-your-car/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/apples-next-generati... Funnily enough, given the… mixed results Apple's UI team has been putting out recently, it remains to be seen how "ergonomic and reliable" the UI actually ends up being.
newaccount74 4y ago
I just had a Kia Sportage as a rental car, and it wasn't too bad: it had buttons for everything you need (dials for climate control, buttons for seat ventilation), and still a pretty big touch screen for navigation. So there are still cars that don't use the touch screen for everything.

mint2 4y ago

Cars seating is horrible and bad for backs. Trends, tradition and short term cost decide most design considerations not practicality or what’s best.

kayodelycaon 4y ago
Depends on the car and the person. I have back problems and almost no office chairs are usable for me. I can easily drive 10 hours in my car with no issues. Sometimes, my back feels better after a drive that long.
boc 4y ago
I wouldn't say this is universally true. Lexus and Volvo tend to make amazing car seats. I say this after driving 2000 miles last week and not feeling a thing in my old Lexus GX.

bowsamic 4y ago

The entire auto industry is driven by hype and trends rather than functionality

7952 4y ago
Yes. Just look at the appalling forward blind spot on a lot of trucks and SUVs. Or the way cars have become taller at the expense of aerodynamics.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  People like sitting higher up, or do not like being seated lower, or so much lower, than others. It might also be safer to be in a higher up car in the event of a collision. Pretty much all the families I know with young kids and toddlers has a full size SUV. Every time I ask why they did not get a minivan such as Odyssey or Sienna, every response is they like SUVs and do not want to sit lower in the minivan. Even though the minivan has better fuel economy, seats more people with more legroom, and has more cargo space, the answer is still SUV is cooler than minivans. I even see families who live with elderly parents prefer to drive two SUVs (or 1 SUV and 1 pickup truck) somewhere with 3 to 4 people in each, rather than have one minivan to be able to transport all 7 or 8 at the same time. And these same families growing up went everywhere in minivans because it was the most economic way, but now that they can afford SUVs, that is what they choose to use.
  - 7952 4y ago
    I know two couples who both started out with small efficient cars. And then had to upgrade because they could not fit a stroller in the back. It feels like car companies just want to have skews that are intentionally compromised to push people into the next tier. When most people just need a compact sedan.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Yet most people who can afford to, choose to buy larger vehicles than they need. Car manufacturers are not shaping people’s desires, they are simply delivering them what they want. A Corolla/civic continues to be available for purchase. Yet people want to sit higher up, so you see the vast increase in sales for RAV4/CRV. https://www.statista.com/statistics/276506/change-in-us-car-demand-by-vehicle-type/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/276506/change-in-us-car-...
      - WorldMaker 4y ago
        The corolla/civic buyers seem to be on a longer planning horizon than the RAV4/CRV buyers. It's tough to compare sales apples to sales oranges when new car buyers on average buy sedans on 10-15 year schedules and SUVs on roughly 5 year schedules. That planning horizon differential alone is enough to explain why car manufacturers would be greater incentivized to iterate on SUVs faster than sedans and include more features. Iteration and feature differentials will contribute as much to sales choices as "sit higher up" will, acting as a reinforcement in the cycle/spiral towards larger vehicles. Car manufacturers aren't incentivized enough to lengthen their own planning horizons or otherwise better accommodate "sensible" sedan drivers, and it becomes very easy to pretend they don't exist and chase the short-term profits of the faster cycle time (especially when pushed by quarterly-earnings focused shareholders).

bjelkeman-again 4y ago

I think it is because A)Good UX is hard and there is a shortage of people who have experience a mixed hardware/software UX. B) Car companies are rather old fashioned in setting their priorities. They haven’t caught on yet at management level that the modern car is a different beast and needs different priorities when designing and engineering. C) A car company is big. It takes a long time to change, and a lot of people are really sceptical and don’t believe the future needs to be different.

bink 4y ago

It reminds me of cell phone interfaces back before the iPhone. I had high hopes that Carplay would motivate the vendors to put some effort into their own interfaces but sadly that doesn't appear to have happened.

bonestamp2 4y ago

A lot of automakers are chasing Tesla's one screen design -- they're so envious of the cost savings there. Except the Germans, they're still putting in lots of buttons and knobs -- my next car will likely be German because they seem to understand what people actually want.

CamperBob2 4y ago
Buy it quick. Even the Macan has a stupid piano-black console touch panel in its current generation.
- bonestamp2 4y ago
  Ya, that's the fault of journalists always complaining about "blank" panels. The former Porsche solution to that was better than this new panel.
- ct0 4y ago
  My previous version Porsche (958) has a button for newly every function. Its very similar to a small plane and it 100% allows me to focus on the road and whats important without looking at the change of function.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    Exactly, same for my 95B.2. I bought it right after the 95B.3 spy shots came out. No regrets.
qbrass 4y ago
Hope it's not a new Golf. VW did more damage to their reputation with that interior than from Dieselgate.
- GoOnThenDoTell 4y ago
  What happened to thr interior?

TylerE 4y ago

None of that. Costs. Buttons are expensive, and additional points of failure. Cheaper to just cram everything into a touchscreen.

guntars 4y ago
Yet the cars are more expensive than ever. Nah, it’s a bet by the management that people don’t actually choose a car based on the polish of the infotainment system.
- sliken 4y ago
  Maybe not, but I've done the opposite. The BMW, Subaru, and Fords I tried had terrible interfaces and I ruled them out. In particular BMW's i-drive seems to be hated by many. Tesla on the other hand has buttons for many things, horn, turn signals, activate the windshield wipers for a moment (I use auto that handles most needs), engage cruise control, set following distance when using cruise control, high beams, pause music, music volume, etc. Sure seat heaters, interior temp, ac, defrosting etc require touch screen use (or leaving them on auto), but those are emergencies and not much different than having to hit one of 8 buttons/dials on a center console. Especially since most are single touch, not touch -> select menu -> hit button. While I find the above not annoying I really love the 15" screen that devotes the majority of the screen to things around the car (lane markers, cars, motorcycles, traffic cones, trucks, pedestrians, etc) and the map (with traffic). If the car sees a problem it blinks that object red, which I find helpful. Sure if I want I can get an inch for the current song. But generally I feel more situationally aware with a nice big nav screen up. On more than one occasion I've seen motorcycles splitting lanes behind me because of motion on the screen before I notice the noise or see them in the mirrors. I also really miss the current speed limit on the screen when I switch cars. I also really like being able to say "play pink floyd", or "navigate to ...".
- TylerE 4y ago
  You're not really arguing with logic, there. How do you know a car with lots of buttons wouldn't cost even more?

akira2501 4y ago

> Why is UX so horrifically bad in the vehicle space? It used to be that vehicle radio units were entirely replaceable. There was a relatively healthy aftermarket, and quite a few shops that would actually do the installations for you. There used to be a lot more competition here, but I think with the general increase in quality of speaker systems combined with smart phones and the much higher level of system integration through the head unit effectively killed it. Hence.. you get what you buy. In a sense, the manufacturer has a monopoly on your dash that they didn't traditionally have.

jackmott 4y ago

nine_k 4y ago

I wonder if third-party infotainment with buttons and otherwise ergonomic, reliable UI is legally possible. If so, it could be a viable business?

alex_suzuki 4y ago
Interesting idea. I just don’t see carmakers giving up previous real-estate for a third-party solution.
isametry 4y ago
The upcoming "next generation" of Apple CarPlay strives to be exactly that: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/apples-next-generation-of-carplay-plans-to-take-over-every-screen-in-your-car/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/apples-next-generati... Funnily enough, given the… mixed results Apple's UI team has been putting out recently, it remains to be seen how "ergonomic and reliable" the UI actually ends up being.

newaccount74 4y ago

I just had a Kia Sportage as a rental car, and it wasn't too bad: it had buttons for everything you need (dials for climate control, buttons for seat ventilation), and still a pretty big touch screen for navigation. So there are still cars that don't use the touch screen for everything.