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Great. Now apply it to all the other colleges who marketed themselves as money making for students and an "investment" only to saddle them with unforgivable stu

Great. Now apply it to all the other colleges who marketed themselves as money making for students and an "investment" only to saddle them with unforgivable student loan debt.

verdverm 4y ago
Does that fix the problem? Will the universities still be allowed to keep doing this and thus create another generation of indebtedness?
- balentio 4y ago
  No. The problem is greed. I'm not sure what fixes that, other than usually tragedy.
  - jmoak3 4y ago
    At scale, everyone looks out for #1, and kids have a tendency to be a little naive. I'm no expert, but it sounds like the problem is that we keep giving gov-backed money to kids to spend at schools who are telling them that paying 120k to be a history major is an excellent idea. These schools are not their friends, and if we want to fix this, it feels like we have several choices: A. Dictate to kids which programs they can get easy loans for. B. Punish schools that produce tons of screwed over indebted kids, and hope they begin to downsize programs and costs. C. Cut out the easy loans altogether, let schools fail, and see what happens. D. Keep forgiving debt, and watch as angry people who avoided college and the loans vote in radical politicians with axes to grind. Maybe we could see schools move to some sort of income sharing program, but I'm somewhat confident we'd soon see schools getting kids to sign on deals that are wildly exploitative (like 20 years of 10% of income sharing with the school...). I know it sucks, but this whole situation sucks - I'm leaning towards A. Open to more discussion on this.
    - verdverm 4y ago
      My hunch is that the underlying problems are 1. Easy, govt backed loans allow the schools to raise prices without reducing demand 2. Most of this extra revenue is not spent on academics, but rather admin staff, new student housing / amenities, and loss centers like sports 3. Students choosing paths that cannot pay back the debt they take I think all parties have blame to share, though the schools maybe the most through their exploitive practices I'm hopeful that new learning paths will emerge so that people can find meaningful, sustaining work without the traditional 4 year degree
    - balentio 4y ago
      The simple solution would be to make the debt hypothetically discharge-able again and to get the government bubble of money out of the picture of higher education. I suspect the market would mostly regulate itself at that point, but then you get into the whole "not equal opportunity" crap. I hate to say it, but it isn't equal now. You trade proportions of colors of students for everyone has a degree, no one has a job, and everyone is in debt.
willcipriano 4y ago
A solution I never see anyone else argue for. I'd like to have the FTC look into college advertising over the years to see what claims they made. If people were under the impression that expensive degrees in fields with way more supply than demand were going to result in good saleries that would be fraud and I'd expect them to be refunded. Would probably bankrupt them but that's what you get when you make misleading claims for money.

Great. Now apply it to all the other colleges who marketed themselves as money making for students and an "investment" only to saddle them with unforgivable student loan debt.

verdverm 4y ago

Does that fix the problem? Will the universities still be allowed to keep doing this and thus create another generation of indebtedness?

balentio 4y ago
No. The problem is greed. I'm not sure what fixes that, other than usually tragedy.
- jmoak3 4y ago
  At scale, everyone looks out for #1, and kids have a tendency to be a little naive. I'm no expert, but it sounds like the problem is that we keep giving gov-backed money to kids to spend at schools who are telling them that paying 120k to be a history major is an excellent idea. These schools are not their friends, and if we want to fix this, it feels like we have several choices: A. Dictate to kids which programs they can get easy loans for. B. Punish schools that produce tons of screwed over indebted kids, and hope they begin to downsize programs and costs. C. Cut out the easy loans altogether, let schools fail, and see what happens. D. Keep forgiving debt, and watch as angry people who avoided college and the loans vote in radical politicians with axes to grind. Maybe we could see schools move to some sort of income sharing program, but I'm somewhat confident we'd soon see schools getting kids to sign on deals that are wildly exploitative (like 20 years of 10% of income sharing with the school...). I know it sucks, but this whole situation sucks - I'm leaning towards A. Open to more discussion on this.
  - verdverm 4y ago
    My hunch is that the underlying problems are 1. Easy, govt backed loans allow the schools to raise prices without reducing demand 2. Most of this extra revenue is not spent on academics, but rather admin staff, new student housing / amenities, and loss centers like sports 3. Students choosing paths that cannot pay back the debt they take I think all parties have blame to share, though the schools maybe the most through their exploitive practices I'm hopeful that new learning paths will emerge so that people can find meaningful, sustaining work without the traditional 4 year degree
  - balentio 4y ago
    The simple solution would be to make the debt hypothetically discharge-able again and to get the government bubble of money out of the picture of higher education. I suspect the market would mostly regulate itself at that point, but then you get into the whole "not equal opportunity" crap. I hate to say it, but it isn't equal now. You trade proportions of colors of students for everyone has a degree, no one has a job, and everyone is in debt.

willcipriano 4y ago

A solution I never see anyone else argue for. I'd like to have the FTC look into college advertising over the years to see what claims they made. If people were under the impression that expensive degrees in fields with way more supply than demand were going to result in good saleries that would be fraud and I'd expect them to be refunded. Would probably bankrupt them but that's what you get when you make misleading claims for money.