4 ms·

Oh, there is less corruption. Way way less.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
The west has just institutionalized and process-ified the same old "give resources, get favor" process. It's technically less corrupt but the drag on society is still very much there.
buran77 4y ago
I worked with the people who, in an official capacity, estimate how much money changes hands via acts of corruption in the EU. And I can assure you that while being part of the EU the money which flowed through the corruption pipes in the City of London gave some Eastern European countries' entire GDPs a run for their money. Way less "small corruption", individuals committing small acts of corruption? Yes. Way less "large corruption"? No. Small corruption means you get ahead in a queue at the doctor's every once in a while. Large corruption changes the nature of society, it means tens of thousands of people are forced to pee in bottles in a fulfillment center and somehow this is just fine.
- lock-the-spock 4y ago
  The London laundromat is a well known issue that the UK government refuses to fix as the people in power benefit from it. Same as all of Switzerland's business logic. But this does not represent the average administration in an average EU country - there is still fraud, favouritism, etc, even in the model countries, but the share of fraud is well below what you find in other countries.
  - buran77 4y ago
    > this does not represent the average administration in an average EU country You are right, it's mainly the bigger economies. That was actually the point, the bigger the economy, the more money floats around towards pockets it shouldn't be in by virtue of the fact that it's hard to notice. Things work so it's the perfect cover. UK isn't really the exception, it's not like Germany doesn't have similar issues even if little to none of this can be proven formally. In what might be the only report of its kind in the EU the level of corruption was estimated at well over 100bn EUR. And that's the conservative estimate. The consensus is that the problem isn't with small bribes but with the ties between the political class and industry. The stronger the industry, the bigger the corruption. Look at representative leaders in the EU. People like Madame Lagarde, convicted of misuse of public funds (the lighter version of a corruption charge which allowed her to walk away because she had too massive strings attached), or Ursula von der Leyen, twice investigated for corruption, twice the evidence was mysteriously destroyed, twice got away. They're all inevitably corrupted by private economic interests that are enabled by the sheer financial power they have. And that financial power comes both from doing a good job, and greasing the wheels where needed with more money than an average person can even imagine. Money begets money.

The west has just institutionalized and process-ified the same old "give resources, get favor" process. It's technically less corrupt but the drag on society is still very much there.

buran77 4y ago

I worked with the people who, in an official capacity, estimate how much money changes hands via acts of corruption in the EU. And I can assure you that while being part of the EU the money which flowed through the corruption pipes in the City of London gave some Eastern European countries' entire GDPs a run for their money. Way less "small corruption", individuals committing small acts of corruption? Yes. Way less "large corruption"? No. Small corruption means you get ahead in a queue at the doctor's every once in a while. Large corruption changes the nature of society, it means tens of thousands of people are forced to pee in bottles in a fulfillment center and somehow this is just fine.

lock-the-spock 4y ago
The London laundromat is a well known issue that the UK government refuses to fix as the people in power benefit from it. Same as all of Switzerland's business logic. But this does not represent the average administration in an average EU country - there is still fraud, favouritism, etc, even in the model countries, but the share of fraud is well below what you find in other countries.
- buran77 4y ago
  > this does not represent the average administration in an average EU country You are right, it's mainly the bigger economies. That was actually the point, the bigger the economy, the more money floats around towards pockets it shouldn't be in by virtue of the fact that it's hard to notice. Things work so it's the perfect cover. UK isn't really the exception, it's not like Germany doesn't have similar issues even if little to none of this can be proven formally. In what might be the only report of its kind in the EU the level of corruption was estimated at well over 100bn EUR. And that's the conservative estimate. The consensus is that the problem isn't with small bribes but with the ties between the political class and industry. The stronger the industry, the bigger the corruption. Look at representative leaders in the EU. People like Madame Lagarde, convicted of misuse of public funds (the lighter version of a corruption charge which allowed her to walk away because she had too massive strings attached), or Ursula von der Leyen, twice investigated for corruption, twice the evidence was mysteriously destroyed, twice got away. They're all inevitably corrupted by private economic interests that are enabled by the sheer financial power they have. And that financial power comes both from doing a good job, and greasing the wheels where needed with more money than an average person can even imagine. Money begets money.