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Why aren't the Chinese and Russians successful at building airliners? International politics aside, they have workable products, so why can't they break into th

Why aren't the Chinese and Russians successful at building airliners? International politics aside, they have workable products, so why can't they break into the duopoly.

bobthepanda 4y ago
Workable != competitive, and in an industry as cutthroat in aviation airlines want the absolute best in fuel efficiency and reliability to undercut their competitors by $5. There are other commercial aircraft manufacturers but essentially in each size segment you will only see two players. Embraer doesn‘t make any direct competitors with Airbus or Boeing, as an example.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Embraer jets got rebranded as A220s not that long ago, great planes that took over the market that served by short 737s and A319/18s. No competition for the bigger planes, that is true.
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    The A220s were Bombardier. Them selling out to Airbus had more to do with general issues at the parent conglomerate (they also exited trains and snowmobiles to raise cash). But they still make corporate jets.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Ha, I always mix up Bombardier, Embraer, Boeing and Airbus when it comes to whom bought whom. And yes, Bombardier always made great aircraft. Embraer as well, by the way.
octodog 4y ago
Duopoly markets can be surprisingly efficient in some circumstances, so it may not be profitable for other firms to enter the market. https://inomics.com/terms/bertrand-competition-1504578 https://inomics.com/terms/bertrand-competition-1504578
everybodyknows 4y ago
> they have workable products Not so, not for Russia anyway: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100
- hef19898 4y ago
  And that was a very promising program.
jseliger 4y ago
There is an excellent book on this subject: https://www.amazon.com/China-Airborne-James-Fallows/dp/1400031273 https://www.amazon.com/China-Airborne-James-Fallows/dp/14000...

Why aren't the Chinese and Russians successful at building airliners? International politics aside, they have workable products, so why can't they break into the duopoly.

bobthepanda 4y ago

Workable != competitive, and in an industry as cutthroat in aviation airlines want the absolute best in fuel efficiency and reliability to undercut their competitors by $5. There are other commercial aircraft manufacturers but essentially in each size segment you will only see two players. Embraer doesn‘t make any direct competitors with Airbus or Boeing, as an example.

hef19898 4y ago
Embraer jets got rebranded as A220s not that long ago, great planes that took over the market that served by short 737s and A319/18s. No competition for the bigger planes, that is true.
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  The A220s were Bombardier. Them selling out to Airbus had more to do with general issues at the parent conglomerate (they also exited trains and snowmobiles to raise cash). But they still make corporate jets.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Ha, I always mix up Bombardier, Embraer, Boeing and Airbus when it comes to whom bought whom. And yes, Bombardier always made great aircraft. Embraer as well, by the way.

octodog 4y ago

Duopoly markets can be surprisingly efficient in some circumstances, so it may not be profitable for other firms to enter the market. https://inomics.com/terms/bertrand-competition-1504578 https://inomics.com/terms/bertrand-competition-1504578

everybodyknows 4y ago

> they have workable products Not so, not for Russia anyway: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100

hef19898 4y ago
And that was a very promising program.

jseliger 4y ago

There is an excellent book on this subject: https://www.amazon.com/China-Airborne-James-Fallows/dp/1400031273 https://www.amazon.com/China-Airborne-James-Fallows/dp/14000...