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You don't think there are folks in India interested in discussing DEI with respect to caste or colorism? What about in the EU? You don't think there are people

You don't think there are folks in India interested in discussing DEI with respect to caste or colorism? What about in the EU? You don't think there are people there enthusiastically discussing DEI?

teakettle42 4y ago
“DEI” is both a very recent and a uniquely western ideological construction.
- ska 4y ago
  Dalit activism has been a thing in India for many decades.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Dalit activism has been a thing in India for many decades. I was specifically talking about the performative white liberal guilt thing, which "high caste Indians who push this stuff" brought to mind. It totally makes sense that lower-class/caste people would be pushing for equality, wherever they are.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- kaesar14 4y ago
  DEI is just rebranding of the struggle for equality, in which the fight against casteism has been raging for decades. This is a very western centric view.
  - teakettle42 4y ago
    DEI is intersectional praxis, not a “rebranding of the struggle for equality”
    - rayiner 4y ago
      And intersectional praxis is, overwhelmingly, an ideology of white people. Most people in the individual groups (Muslims, Hispanics, etc.) are advocating for their own interests. It’s white people that subscribe to a theory that ties these completely different groups together.
      - washbrain 4y ago
        Shit, all those queer black women who have been telling me that intersectionality is important because they experience unique struggles because they are at the intersection of multiple sets of traits have been doing so because it's popular with white folks? Intersectionality is the idea that multiple identities intersect, and like the intersection in a Venn diagram, the overlap is a unique zone.
        rayiner 4y ago
        There’s not enough queer Black women to make intersectionality more than an academic topic. White people are who give it prominence. Black people themselves are as conservative as republicans on sexuality: https://news.gallup.com/poll/112807/blacks-conservative-republicans-some-moral-issues.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/112807/blacks-conservative-repu.... When you see BLM-style advocacy that ties together Black+queer, that’s primarily for white people. Similarly, folks like Ilhan Omar and Linda Sarsour have such prominence not because Muslims see themselves as having common cause with queer people (https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/lgbt-muslims-pride-progress/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/lgbt-muslims-pride-progres...) but because white people do. Put differently, Black people and Muslims may advocate in their own self interest, but otherwise believe whatever they believe. Ordinarily, such advocacy would seek to avoid issues that divide the community within itself. White people, by contrast, are not advocating on their own behalf, but on behalf of a variety of groups that are the object of their sympathy. Intersectionality uniquely reflects how such white people see the world.
        washbrain 4y ago
        What. You realize that much of mainstream culture is drawn from the queer Black community, right? Voguing, house music, slang like "yas queen", "slay", "shade", and "tea", Pride parades, and more. And that BIPOC cultures have a history of third gender peoples? Two Spirit, fa'afafine, chibados, muxe, sipniq, etc. To say these things only exist because of white liberal sexuality is patently absurd.
tablespoon 4y ago
> What about in the EU? You don't think there are people there enthusiastically discussing DEI? There probably are but: 1) I understand it's often thought of as an Americanism there, and 2) Europe doesn't have the same history, which would make its ground less fertile for it (white people are aboriginal there, and I understand there's little to no history of domestic radicalized slavery, etc.).
- rayiner 4y ago
  > white people are aboriginal there The Picts would like to have a word with you.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > The Picts would like to have a word with you. Would they? All the pictures that come up on an image search are of white people with tattoos.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      They are light skinned (like many Asians) but they are not “white” in the racial sense. They’re indigenous people that were displaced and extinguished by Germanic tribes.
  - washbrain 4y ago
    Hell, for a long time the Irish and Italians weren't considered "white".

You don't think there are folks in India interested in discussing DEI with respect to caste or colorism? What about in the EU? You don't think there are people there enthusiastically discussing DEI?

teakettle42 4y ago

“DEI” is both a very recent and a uniquely western ideological construction.

ska 4y ago
Dalit activism has been a thing in India for many decades.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Dalit activism has been a thing in India for many decades. I was specifically talking about the performative white liberal guilt thing, which "high caste Indians who push this stuff" brought to mind. It totally makes sense that lower-class/caste people would be pushing for equality, wherever they are.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
kaesar14 4y ago
DEI is just rebranding of the struggle for equality, in which the fight against casteism has been raging for decades. This is a very western centric view.
- teakettle42 4y ago
  DEI is intersectional praxis, not a “rebranding of the struggle for equality”
  - rayiner 4y ago
    And intersectional praxis is, overwhelmingly, an ideology of white people. Most people in the individual groups (Muslims, Hispanics, etc.) are advocating for their own interests. It’s white people that subscribe to a theory that ties these completely different groups together.
    - washbrain 4y ago
      Shit, all those queer black women who have been telling me that intersectionality is important because they experience unique struggles because they are at the intersection of multiple sets of traits have been doing so because it's popular with white folks? Intersectionality is the idea that multiple identities intersect, and like the intersection in a Venn diagram, the overlap is a unique zone.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        There’s not enough queer Black women to make intersectionality more than an academic topic. White people are who give it prominence. Black people themselves are as conservative as republicans on sexuality: https://news.gallup.com/poll/112807/blacks-conservative-republicans-some-moral-issues.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/112807/blacks-conservative-repu.... When you see BLM-style advocacy that ties together Black+queer, that’s primarily for white people. Similarly, folks like Ilhan Omar and Linda Sarsour have such prominence not because Muslims see themselves as having common cause with queer people (https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/lgbt-muslims-pride-progress/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/lgbt-muslims-pride-progres...) but because white people do. Put differently, Black people and Muslims may advocate in their own self interest, but otherwise believe whatever they believe. Ordinarily, such advocacy would seek to avoid issues that divide the community within itself. White people, by contrast, are not advocating on their own behalf, but on behalf of a variety of groups that are the object of their sympathy. Intersectionality uniquely reflects how such white people see the world.
        washbrain 4y ago
        What. You realize that much of mainstream culture is drawn from the queer Black community, right? Voguing, house music, slang like "yas queen", "slay", "shade", and "tea", Pride parades, and more. And that BIPOC cultures have a history of third gender peoples? Two Spirit, fa'afafine, chibados, muxe, sipniq, etc. To say these things only exist because of white liberal sexuality is patently absurd.

tablespoon 4y ago

> What about in the EU? You don't think there are people there enthusiastically discussing DEI? There probably are but: 1) I understand it's often thought of as an Americanism there, and 2) Europe doesn't have the same history, which would make its ground less fertile for it (white people are aboriginal there, and I understand there's little to no history of domestic radicalized slavery, etc.).

rayiner 4y ago
> white people are aboriginal there The Picts would like to have a word with you.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > The Picts would like to have a word with you. Would they? All the pictures that come up on an image search are of white people with tattoos.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    They are light skinned (like many Asians) but they are not “white” in the racial sense. They’re indigenous people that were displaced and extinguished by Germanic tribes.
- washbrain 4y ago
  Hell, for a long time the Irish and Italians weren't considered "white".