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Could you provide an example of how you solve the problems with Zephyr or ESP-IDF using virtualenv?

by bborud 4y ago

icedchai 4y ago
It appears ESP-IDF can already be installed with a virtualenv: https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf/blob/master/tools/idf_tools.py https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf/blob/master/tools/idf_t... Perhaps your problems are due to external dependencies (outside of Python)?
- azuredragon 4y ago
  In that case: one word bazel One day I wish someone would train something like copilot to automatically bazel all your dependencies. There’s plenty of training data there and you can validate it by making sure the build flags are the same as the cmake or ./configure …
- bborud 4y ago
  So how do you usually install ESP-IDF to ensure smooth sailing? I usually follow a (somewhat more terse) version of the instructions that the Espressif team have on their site. I put that in my blog a while back: https://borud.no/dev/2022/esp-idf-setup/ https://borud.no/dev/2022/esp-idf-setup/. How should I modify this procedure to help avoid breakages in the future? UPDATE: interestingly, I decided to check out and re-build an ESP-IDF project I haven't built since before the summer and now the build breaks because of wrong version dependencies. My point was that why on earth should I have to manage all this stuff? I just want tools that work. This tooling doesn't really provide that. It provides me with more work.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    It's a general story that companies like Espressif couldn't care less about developer experience. Part of why Arduino is a success story is that their dev tools, limited as they are, are easy to get going. Microchip publishes free tools to work with Atmel parts and they have a better feature set but are a hassle to get up and running. I think there's an expectation that top management decides which board gets used and developers just cope with whatever tools come with the board.
    - bborud 4y ago
      What Arduino did right was to understand that you have to make sure the tools run regardless of what is installed on the target machine. You make a software package that has everything it needs to do the job without external dependencies. Now look at the discussion here. A surprising number of people actually expect users to have to understand the runtime requirements and environment of the tooling and seem to think it is the user's job to learn Python and manage this. Not a lot of people here "get it". And oh boy do people get offended if you suggest that one may have something to learn from the kind of thinking that went into Arduino.

Could you provide an example of how you solve the problems with Zephyr or ESP-IDF using virtualenv?

by bborud 4y ago

Could you provide an example of how you solve the problems with Zephyr or ESP-IDF using virtualenv?

It appears ESP-IDF can already be installed with a virtualenv: https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf/blob/master/tools/idf_tools.py https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf/blob/master/tools/idf_t... Perhaps your problems are due to external dependencies (outside of Python)?

azuredragon 4y ago
In that case: one word bazel One day I wish someone would train something like copilot to automatically bazel all your dependencies. There’s plenty of training data there and you can validate it by making sure the build flags are the same as the cmake or ./configure …
bborud 4y ago
So how do you usually install ESP-IDF to ensure smooth sailing? I usually follow a (somewhat more terse) version of the instructions that the Espressif team have on their site. I put that in my blog a while back: https://borud.no/dev/2022/esp-idf-setup/ https://borud.no/dev/2022/esp-idf-setup/. How should I modify this procedure to help avoid breakages in the future? UPDATE: interestingly, I decided to check out and re-build an ESP-IDF project I haven't built since before the summer and now the build breaks because of wrong version dependencies. My point was that why on earth should I have to manage all this stuff? I just want tools that work. This tooling doesn't really provide that. It provides me with more work.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  It's a general story that companies like Espressif couldn't care less about developer experience. Part of why Arduino is a success story is that their dev tools, limited as they are, are easy to get going. Microchip publishes free tools to work with Atmel parts and they have a better feature set but are a hassle to get up and running. I think there's an expectation that top management decides which board gets used and developers just cope with whatever tools come with the board.
  - bborud 4y ago
    What Arduino did right was to understand that you have to make sure the tools run regardless of what is installed on the target machine. You make a software package that has everything it needs to do the job without external dependencies. Now look at the discussion here. A surprising number of people actually expect users to have to understand the runtime requirements and environment of the tooling and seem to think it is the user's job to learn Python and manage this. Not a lot of people here "get it". And oh boy do people get offended if you suggest that one may have something to learn from the kind of thinking that went into Arduino.