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A think a lot of the reigning wisdom in the fitness world is created by serious strength trainers, for serious strength trainers. They aren't wrong, and their a

A think a lot of the reigning wisdom in the fitness world is created by serious strength trainers, for serious strength trainers. They aren't wrong, and their advice will become useful to you if you also get seriously into strength training. But for people starting from neutral, the advice in this article is better than anything your most enthusiastic gym friends will tell you about protein intake or leg day or training to failure. Just workout specific muscles several times a week and you will get stronger and bigger muscles over a few months, regardless of diet.

jmole 4y ago
This. Take shoulder press as an example Most people would be better off lifting a 10 lb weight 50 times instead of lifting a 50 lb weight 10 times. High weight, low reps is a great way to injure yourself if you're like 99% of people out there.
- jiggywiggy 4y ago
  Yeah i moved back my weights to 50/60% of max rep. No more back issues or injuries. Also train less. Yet strength and mass have gone up.
- dsego 4y ago
  I always had problems doing full pushups. Now I'm starting slow, doing upright pushups against the wall. Have to thank this youtuber for the motivation: https://youtu.be/zkU6Ok44_CI https://youtu.be/zkU6Ok44_CI
  - SenHeng 4y ago
    Somehow I just knew it would be Hampton’s video. Yes, this guy and his channel, hybridcalisthenics, is amazing at breaking workouts down into progressive sets for beginners .
- andreareina 4y ago
  Source for 10-rep sets being particularly injurious please. And 10 lbs x 50 is much less stimulative than 50 lbs x 10, bordering on being not particularly effective.
  - ungamedplayer 4y ago
    Any weight you can do 10reps of is unlikely to be near your 1rm max. From my limited experience it's a out 15 percent off.
    - jstx1 4y ago
      > Any weight you can do 10reps of is unlikely to be near your 1rm max. Most people can't do 10 reps at 85% intensity, it's closer to 70-75%.
  - tomp 4y ago
    It’s not that 10rep set is injurious. It’s that 50lbs is injurious, even just lifting it overhead.
    - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
      It's only injurious if you can't do it. If you can lift 50 lbs up above your head a few times in a row, there's nothing wrong with doing that. Most males can probably do that with a tiny bit of practice.
      - tomp 4y ago
        Holding a heavy weight overhead is an inherently unstable position. Even if you can lift it overhead (using momentum), doesn’t mean you can hold it overhead. Even if you can do a few overhead presses, you need to be very careful not to do it to failure, as you need enough strength to safely bring it back to the ground. If you lose balance and the weight swings back, your shoulder is fucked, especially at that weight.
        4y ago
- gadders 4y ago
  Yeah, if you want an old age filled with weakness and fragility. If you build up to it and you have the strength and lift with good technique there is nothing wrong with it. 50lbs is only just over the weight of the bar anyway. Weakness is never a strength.
- FartyMcFarter 4y ago
  50 times is a bit too much for me, and probably a lot of other people. It leads to mental or cardiovascular fatigue, which is not what I'm after when building muscle/strength. If you're an endurance athlete it would be more appropriate. When training for muscle size the important thing is to fatigue the muscle itself, which is easier to do with 5-20 reps, maybe 30 at the most if exercising small muscles. Regarding "low reps", that usually refers to sets of 1-3 reps very close to your maximum potential. Once you go above 5 reps or so, the risk of injury is much lower. There are lots of beginner programs using sets of 5 reps, and people aren't getting injured left and right on those.
  - hackernewds 4y ago
    Think they were being hyperbolical. Your example makes sense though
- jstx1 4y ago
  You still need a minimum level of intensity. You won't be improving strength with something that you can lift 50 times. One way to measure perceived exertion is how many additional reps you think you can do - if you're doing 10 reps at a weight where you can only do 10, then you're obviously at some risk of having worse form / injury; if you're doing 10 reps at a weight that you can lift 12-15 times, you'll probably get stronger, if you're doing 10 reps at a weight you can lift 25-30 times, you likely won't make a lot of progress.
  - codingdave 4y ago
    If you can lift what you need to 50 times, do you need to improve strength? For most people, exercise is about health and about being functional in their life. If you have a baseline level of fitness and an exercise habit that supports it, it is OK to plateau at that level and just live your healthy life.
    - jstx1 4y ago
      It's perferctly fine to maintain but that also requires training at some minimal level of intensity.
    - patricklouys 4y ago
      It's not ok to plateau at that level. You will get old, your strength and bone density will go down and it is a lot harder (but still possible) to improve those when you are old. Much better to start with a lot more than the minimum so you have a decent safety margin (and lifelong habits that will keep you healthy for as long as possible).
- NathanielK 4y ago
  What's your current maximum shoulder press, and how's your physique? I've been training the latter, and I am almost certainly stronger than you.
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    While I do like the idea of HNers having to post their physique in any thread related to nutrition and fitness, the topic of this thread is what's ideal for most people who aren't as serious about lifting. Whether they are right or wrong (I don't think we have a way to know), it's kind of a different point. Besides, I don't think your body is going to be any different from your clone doing massive reps to failure with the same conviction.
- patricklouys 4y ago
  Using 10lbs for shoulder press does absolutely nothing for your fitness. Even 50lbs barely does anything unless you are completely untrained. And 10 reps is not low reps either. It's on the upper end of what people usually use in their workouts.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    They could be talking about dumbbell weight, as 10lb is entry level but 50lbx10 requires some shoulder development. Either way, I don't see the issue with doing 50 reps of something if you're failing at the end. The main issue is that it's boring and more mentally taxing than 6-10 reps I think. There's a Huberman Lab podcast with some expert who also says the ideal rep range is anywhere from 6 reps to 30+ reps to make the point that we overly fixate on it. Lifting something until you can't is the operative goal. I personally like drop sets for this purpose (decreasing weight until failure) because you end on a lighter weight that won't hurt you if something goes wrong, but you aren't stuck lifting one weight for too long.
thefz 4y ago
Getting out there and doing your run, or your routine in the gym, is the 80%. Other specifics will make the remaining 20%.
- ebjaas_2022 4y ago
  100% agree. The most important point is to make exercise enjoyable; the more it feels like a chore, the more you will not be getting out there doing it.
  - Ma8ee 4y ago
    A corollary to that is to not overdo it, even if you have an enjoyable time while you do it. You shouldn't be too tired or sore when it's time for the next training session.
  - NetOpWibby 4y ago
    I wish I could agree with this more. Vigorously nodding will have to do.
  - Betelgeuse90 4y ago
    Exactly. This is why I got into indoor boulder climbing. It's hella fun, and as long as it is I'll push myself without even trying.
- jmacd 4y ago
  Yes! Everything I learned when I was young told me a) you have to be *very serious* about working out if you are going to do it and b) it's mostly about looking good. Both of those turned out to be huge fallacies. I'm 40 now and not very serious about working out, but I do it reliably (on an irregular schedule) and I don't target specific muscles etc to try to make myself look a certain way. The result is that I am just plain healthier and feel great. That has many second order effects.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
gala8y 4y ago
Couldn't agree more. > "Days of are still good." Have a look (or rather listen) here: https://hubermanlab.com/dr-peter-attia-exercise-nutrition-ho https://hubermanlab.com/dr-peter-attia-exercise-nutrition-ho... Interesting discussion.

jmole 4y ago

This. Take shoulder press as an example Most people would be better off lifting a 10 lb weight 50 times instead of lifting a 50 lb weight 10 times. High weight, low reps is a great way to injure yourself if you're like 99% of people out there.

jiggywiggy 4y ago
Yeah i moved back my weights to 50/60% of max rep. No more back issues or injuries. Also train less. Yet strength and mass have gone up.
dsego 4y ago
I always had problems doing full pushups. Now I'm starting slow, doing upright pushups against the wall. Have to thank this youtuber for the motivation: https://youtu.be/zkU6Ok44_CI https://youtu.be/zkU6Ok44_CI
- SenHeng 4y ago
  Somehow I just knew it would be Hampton’s video. Yes, this guy and his channel, hybridcalisthenics, is amazing at breaking workouts down into progressive sets for beginners .
andreareina 4y ago
Source for 10-rep sets being particularly injurious please. And 10 lbs x 50 is much less stimulative than 50 lbs x 10, bordering on being not particularly effective.
- ungamedplayer 4y ago
  Any weight you can do 10reps of is unlikely to be near your 1rm max. From my limited experience it's a out 15 percent off.
  - jstx1 4y ago
    > Any weight you can do 10reps of is unlikely to be near your 1rm max. Most people can't do 10 reps at 85% intensity, it's closer to 70-75%.
- tomp 4y ago
  It’s not that 10rep set is injurious. It’s that 50lbs is injurious, even just lifting it overhead.
  - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
    It's only injurious if you can't do it. If you can lift 50 lbs up above your head a few times in a row, there's nothing wrong with doing that. Most males can probably do that with a tiny bit of practice.
    - tomp 4y ago
      Holding a heavy weight overhead is an inherently unstable position. Even if you can lift it overhead (using momentum), doesn’t mean you can hold it overhead. Even if you can do a few overhead presses, you need to be very careful not to do it to failure, as you need enough strength to safely bring it back to the ground. If you lose balance and the weight swings back, your shoulder is fucked, especially at that weight.
      - 4y ago
gadders 4y ago
Yeah, if you want an old age filled with weakness and fragility. If you build up to it and you have the strength and lift with good technique there is nothing wrong with it. 50lbs is only just over the weight of the bar anyway. Weakness is never a strength.
FartyMcFarter 4y ago
50 times is a bit too much for me, and probably a lot of other people. It leads to mental or cardiovascular fatigue, which is not what I'm after when building muscle/strength. If you're an endurance athlete it would be more appropriate. When training for muscle size the important thing is to fatigue the muscle itself, which is easier to do with 5-20 reps, maybe 30 at the most if exercising small muscles. Regarding "low reps", that usually refers to sets of 1-3 reps very close to your maximum potential. Once you go above 5 reps or so, the risk of injury is much lower. There are lots of beginner programs using sets of 5 reps, and people aren't getting injured left and right on those.
- hackernewds 4y ago
  Think they were being hyperbolical. Your example makes sense though
jstx1 4y ago
You still need a minimum level of intensity. You won't be improving strength with something that you can lift 50 times. One way to measure perceived exertion is how many additional reps you think you can do - if you're doing 10 reps at a weight where you can only do 10, then you're obviously at some risk of having worse form / injury; if you're doing 10 reps at a weight that you can lift 12-15 times, you'll probably get stronger, if you're doing 10 reps at a weight you can lift 25-30 times, you likely won't make a lot of progress.
- codingdave 4y ago
  If you can lift what you need to 50 times, do you need to improve strength? For most people, exercise is about health and about being functional in their life. If you have a baseline level of fitness and an exercise habit that supports it, it is OK to plateau at that level and just live your healthy life.
  - jstx1 4y ago
    It's perferctly fine to maintain but that also requires training at some minimal level of intensity.
  - patricklouys 4y ago
    It's not ok to plateau at that level. You will get old, your strength and bone density will go down and it is a lot harder (but still possible) to improve those when you are old. Much better to start with a lot more than the minimum so you have a decent safety margin (and lifelong habits that will keep you healthy for as long as possible).
NathanielK 4y ago
What's your current maximum shoulder press, and how's your physique? I've been training the latter, and I am almost certainly stronger than you.
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  While I do like the idea of HNers having to post their physique in any thread related to nutrition and fitness, the topic of this thread is what's ideal for most people who aren't as serious about lifting. Whether they are right or wrong (I don't think we have a way to know), it's kind of a different point. Besides, I don't think your body is going to be any different from your clone doing massive reps to failure with the same conviction.
patricklouys 4y ago
Using 10lbs for shoulder press does absolutely nothing for your fitness. Even 50lbs barely does anything unless you are completely untrained. And 10 reps is not low reps either. It's on the upper end of what people usually use in their workouts.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  They could be talking about dumbbell weight, as 10lb is entry level but 50lbx10 requires some shoulder development. Either way, I don't see the issue with doing 50 reps of something if you're failing at the end. The main issue is that it's boring and more mentally taxing than 6-10 reps I think. There's a Huberman Lab podcast with some expert who also says the ideal rep range is anywhere from 6 reps to 30+ reps to make the point that we overly fixate on it. Lifting something until you can't is the operative goal. I personally like drop sets for this purpose (decreasing weight until failure) because you end on a lighter weight that won't hurt you if something goes wrong, but you aren't stuck lifting one weight for too long.

thefz 4y ago

Getting out there and doing your run, or your routine in the gym, is the 80%. Other specifics will make the remaining 20%.

ebjaas_2022 4y ago
100% agree. The most important point is to make exercise enjoyable; the more it feels like a chore, the more you will not be getting out there doing it.
- Ma8ee 4y ago
  A corollary to that is to not overdo it, even if you have an enjoyable time while you do it. You shouldn't be too tired or sore when it's time for the next training session.
- NetOpWibby 4y ago
  I wish I could agree with this more. Vigorously nodding will have to do.
- Betelgeuse90 4y ago
  Exactly. This is why I got into indoor boulder climbing. It's hella fun, and as long as it is I'll push myself without even trying.
jmacd 4y ago
Yes! Everything I learned when I was young told me a) you have to be *very serious* about working out if you are going to do it and b) it's mostly about looking good. Both of those turned out to be huge fallacies. I'm 40 now and not very serious about working out, but I do it reliably (on an irregular schedule) and I don't target specific muscles etc to try to make myself look a certain way. The result is that I am just plain healthier and feel great. That has many second order effects.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

gala8y 4y ago

Couldn't agree more. > "Days of are still good." Have a look (or rather listen) here: https://hubermanlab.com/dr-peter-attia-exercise-nutrition-ho https://hubermanlab.com/dr-peter-attia-exercise-nutrition-ho... Interesting discussion.