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I'm so glad to be working at a company (a SaaS startup) that transitioned to a permanent "remote first" policy when Covid hit. That transition was validated by

I'm so glad to be working at a company (a SaaS startup) that transitioned to a permanent "remote first" policy when Covid hit. That transition was validated by a significant productivity increase - they have good data to say it makes business sense not to go back. Personally, I'll never go back to working in an office, God willing.

elforce002 4y ago
God willing indeed. Congrats.
browningstreet 4y ago
My company extolled the amazing productivity results of the connected culture through the pandemic but is pushing for RTO. Worse, during the pandemic they hire people like me as permanent remote. Now we’re getting pressures… denied promotions because we’re not in the office. Probably time to start looking for permanent remote employers.
- TimTheTinker 4y ago
  It seems to me like there's a sunk cost fallacy going on with larger companies (i.e. companies that were larger prior to the pandemic). They've got these beautiful buildings and campuses that represent significant capital and personal investment -- that all have no reason to exist without an RTO policy. My company is 5x the size it was prior to the pandemic, but only has office space to accommodate ~1/7 of its workforce. The office functions as a space individuals and teams can reserve for limited times if they want to. So there's no big building tempting leadership to implement RTO.
  - asdff 4y ago
    Most companies just lease office space. You would think that they would be eager to get out of having to lease these sorts of spaces if their employees are willing to foot the bill of maintaining an office themselves through working from home. Emotion is beating logic here I think. It should come as no surprise that the only people pushing for return to office are the managers against the wishes of many employees. They are the ones who felt slighted and made obsolete when the world showed it could do the same computer work at a desk at home versus one in an office that you are probably burning CO2 to get to. What a disaster for the planet. Visibility was like 50 miles early in the pandemic from the mountaintops in LA county with no one driving and generating dust from their tires. No longer.
    - sifar 4y ago
      >> Emotion is beating logic here I think It is not. >> the only people pushing for return to office are the managers against the wishes of many employees. They are the ones who felt slighted and made obsolete This is the organizational logic working.
    - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 4y ago
      > Emotion is beating logic here I think. Emotion may be beating logic for many of the people in this thread. Our company has been super transparent with us from the outset that we're about 30% less productive as a remote-first company compared to everyone being in the office. This was deemed acceptable. We're biotech, we employee an army of medical doctors, and as long as COVID remains a real threat, we'll remain remote-first. We got rid of maybe a quarter of our office space, but our company has made it clear that it intends to eventually move us back into the office at least once or twice a week for most employees to regain some of that lost productivity and especially to help new hires get up to speed more quickly. Some high performing, individual contributor, highly self-motivated knowledge workers may be more productive in a fully remote environment, but I think it's very much the exception. For better or for worse, most people just want to do the bare minimum amount of work that they can get away with while still keeping their job, and they can get away with doing far less remotely than they can in real life.
      - TimTheTinker 4y ago
        > Some high performing, individual contributor, highly self-motivated knowledge workers may be more productive in a fully remote environment, but I think it's very much the exception. This probably depends on industry and job function. For software developers working for a software company, I think it's the rule, not the exception. Our company saw a significant productivity boost as soon as the engineering department went remote, and I've heard the same from other companies as well. Even better, being remote-first means a software company opens itself up to a much larger, more diverse talent pool. Hiring excellent ICs wherever they may be allows you to compete with the best for the best. I live in an area with only one large software company in a 25 mile radius - one I used to work for. But I left it for a remote-first startup in Los Angeles. I still live in the same house with my wife and kids; we didn't have to move them and start over, something for which I am deeply grateful. More is expected of me (which I am thrilled to deliver) and I'm paid a lot more too.
tinus_hn 4y ago
That’s great. Apple employees who don’t like this decision are free to go work for a company like that.
guywithahat 4y ago
That's interesting that you saw a productivity increase; we saw productivity drop by roughly half, and it never came back. We did aerospace software and simulation though so maybe the SaaS startup is different

elforce002 4y ago

God willing indeed. Congrats.

browningstreet 4y ago

My company extolled the amazing productivity results of the connected culture through the pandemic but is pushing for RTO. Worse, during the pandemic they hire people like me as permanent remote. Now we’re getting pressures… denied promotions because we’re not in the office. Probably time to start looking for permanent remote employers.

TimTheTinker 4y ago
It seems to me like there's a sunk cost fallacy going on with larger companies (i.e. companies that were larger prior to the pandemic). They've got these beautiful buildings and campuses that represent significant capital and personal investment -- that all have no reason to exist without an RTO policy. My company is 5x the size it was prior to the pandemic, but only has office space to accommodate ~1/7 of its workforce. The office functions as a space individuals and teams can reserve for limited times if they want to. So there's no big building tempting leadership to implement RTO.
- asdff 4y ago
  Most companies just lease office space. You would think that they would be eager to get out of having to lease these sorts of spaces if their employees are willing to foot the bill of maintaining an office themselves through working from home. Emotion is beating logic here I think. It should come as no surprise that the only people pushing for return to office are the managers against the wishes of many employees. They are the ones who felt slighted and made obsolete when the world showed it could do the same computer work at a desk at home versus one in an office that you are probably burning CO2 to get to. What a disaster for the planet. Visibility was like 50 miles early in the pandemic from the mountaintops in LA county with no one driving and generating dust from their tires. No longer.
  - sifar 4y ago
    >> Emotion is beating logic here I think It is not. >> the only people pushing for return to office are the managers against the wishes of many employees. They are the ones who felt slighted and made obsolete This is the organizational logic working.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 4y ago
    > Emotion is beating logic here I think. Emotion may be beating logic for many of the people in this thread. Our company has been super transparent with us from the outset that we're about 30% less productive as a remote-first company compared to everyone being in the office. This was deemed acceptable. We're biotech, we employee an army of medical doctors, and as long as COVID remains a real threat, we'll remain remote-first. We got rid of maybe a quarter of our office space, but our company has made it clear that it intends to eventually move us back into the office at least once or twice a week for most employees to regain some of that lost productivity and especially to help new hires get up to speed more quickly. Some high performing, individual contributor, highly self-motivated knowledge workers may be more productive in a fully remote environment, but I think it's very much the exception. For better or for worse, most people just want to do the bare minimum amount of work that they can get away with while still keeping their job, and they can get away with doing far less remotely than they can in real life.
    - TimTheTinker 4y ago
      > Some high performing, individual contributor, highly self-motivated knowledge workers may be more productive in a fully remote environment, but I think it's very much the exception. This probably depends on industry and job function. For software developers working for a software company, I think it's the rule, not the exception. Our company saw a significant productivity boost as soon as the engineering department went remote, and I've heard the same from other companies as well. Even better, being remote-first means a software company opens itself up to a much larger, more diverse talent pool. Hiring excellent ICs wherever they may be allows you to compete with the best for the best. I live in an area with only one large software company in a 25 mile radius - one I used to work for. But I left it for a remote-first startup in Los Angeles. I still live in the same house with my wife and kids; we didn't have to move them and start over, something for which I am deeply grateful. More is expected of me (which I am thrilled to deliver) and I'm paid a lot more too.

tinus_hn 4y ago

That’s great. Apple employees who don’t like this decision are free to go work for a company like that.

guywithahat 4y ago

That's interesting that you saw a productivity increase; we saw productivity drop by roughly half, and it never came back. We did aerospace software and simulation though so maybe the SaaS startup is different