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> it is frustrating that apple doesn’t believe its costumers. What's notable here is there is 49 pages of seemingly mostly "me too". It should give Apple at t

> it is frustrating that apple doesn’t believe its costumers. What's notable here is there is 49 pages of seemingly mostly "me too". It should give Apple at the very least pause for reevaluation of their stance. One guy saying "I didn't do it man" is not evidence, but a clearly non coordinated global trend of people claiming the same thing? Pretty compelling.

jug 4y ago
Yeah these kinds of en masse reports have resulted in an Apple response in the past so here’s hoping for everyone subject to this. They use to be awfully reluctant though. An article in mainstream news and sustained pressure should help.
trophycase 4y ago
They likely know and don't care. My old macbook pro updated to the latest OS and it completely bricked the machine. Every time I'd try to watch a video the thing would overheat. Reverted the OS and the issue was completely fixed. Bought a new iphone recently and the camera simply can't focus at short range.
cycomanic 4y ago
Why would it? Seriously a large proportion even of the users bitten by this will still run to buy the next shiny apple device they release and then there is the other part of the users who are not affected and will blame the affected users for doing something wrong, because apple can't be in the wrong. I never understood the personal attachment and identification that some brands elicit it people (but credit to Apple to achieving this, and I don't mean this ironically. They must be doing something right to gather such a following).
- noizejoy 4y ago
  Benn Jordan just made a nice video explaining how brand loyalty is based on a deeply human trait: https://youtu.be/HqMMRh3VRT8 https://youtu.be/HqMMRh3VRT8
- pattle 4y ago
  I think having a strong personal attachment to a brand is actually pretty normal. If you spend a large chunk of your time using a companies products and those products make your easier/better it's understandable.
- jamwil 4y ago
  I don’t know that its what Apple does right but that the broader PC market continues to shoot itself in the foot. Little things like pre-installed bloatware and the inability to figure out smooth trackpad scrolling (still!) keep me firmly on Apple devices. And more recently, the M1 platform is remarkable, so I tip my hat to them for that and doing the basic stuff right (mostly—there have been blemishes obviously).
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    What floors me is I've had several hilariously cheap Chromebooks and they all have better trackpads than every single PC I've owned. How!?
    - bzzzt 4y ago
      Simple: because a single entity has responsibility for the entire product. PC's are built out of software from Microsoft, hardware from a random supplier (and probably a contractor who agreed to write a driver in a week), and a assembler/supplier like Dell or Lenovo who go for the lowest margin so can't and won't fix any of the mistakes of the other two parties.
- 8ytecoder 4y ago
  It’s also because a good chunk of people also lie to get something fixed under warranty. Didn’t the other weak the article that rose to the front page talk in detail about the various frauds? I wish Apple wasn’t like this and spent time investigating each defect accurately to identify and issue “recalls”. They sure have the money to do it. But like every other capitalistic company - including the ones that put a 1 ton missile on the road - they fix something when they have a financial incentive to do it. Class action lawsuits are a good incentive. Loss of goodwill is a hard to quantify but important one as well. And I’m sure there’s a suit somewhere in Apple spaceship doing these calculations.
- tomxor 4y ago
  > credit to Apple to achieving this, and I don't mean this ironically. They must be doing something right to gather such a following Credit in a disgusting kind of way yes. A skill you can only admire abstractly. This kind of thing has been going on for well over a decade now, the reality distortion field that Jobs left behind is very real... It's China level of denialism, pretty sure Apple's internal media control slogan is "never admit fault, deny everything, at all cost" - even big fat class action cost, because that's cheaper than breaking the delusion of the pretty, perfect device with a massive markup. Once you've been burned once and they disrespect your intelligence you abandon them if you have any sense... but to be fair to others, some people become entrenched in the ecosystem and effectively have lockin, many of those poor souls do what any human does to protect their sanity in an impossible scenario, they lie to themselves to justify the economic and emotional cost to them - which ironically helps sustain the delusion for everyone else. Although maybe the single benefit of the big apps turning everything into a cloud subscription is that it reduces this somewhat. But everyone has limits, I'm convinced there is a critical mass Apple will disenchant where the illusion will finally be broken for everyone and they burn their image. Since the company is well and truly into the milking stage I'm sure this will happen sooner than later - Investors have limited life spans even if companies do not.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Gigachad 4y ago
  You say this like other brands products are flawless and don't randomly break ever. So far Apple is the only tech brand I have had no issues with and has vastly exceeded the experience I have had with alternatives.
BitwiseFool 4y ago
Folks like you and I can interpret it this way, but the accountants and engineers at Apple would have to provide much more rigorous evidence to the high level executives that would need to sign off on some remediation program, recall, or redesign. Granted, at a lower level it could be used as justification to look into more rigorous/empirical investigation.
Spooky23 4y ago
You only hear about it because it’s Apple and they have like 6 SKUs of products that they sell millions of. When the batteries bulge or screens fail on some random Dell made by a subcontractor in Vietnam, nobody cares as they have like 80 models of laptop for every market segment. The bullshit thing in my mind is that Apple took away the ability for store staff to make discretionary calls to bypass stuff like this and do what’s right for the customer.
- r3012 4y ago
  > The bullshit thing in my mind is that Apple took away the ability for store staff to make discretionary calls to bypass stuff like this and do what’s right for the customer. It could be that, or retail workers are sick of us and aren't making calls in our direction anymore. https://www.businessinsider.com/retail-workers-leaving-quit-over-nightmare-customers-low-pay-2021-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/retail-workers-leaving-quit-...
  - Kaze404 4y ago
    Who is "us" here? Abusive customers? I can't fathom someone coming into a store being nice as expected and a retail over fucking them over just because.
    - AussieWog93 4y ago
      It absolutely happens, especially with lower class (as in "white trash" class, not working class) customers. Workers fuck with them just because they can.
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      It's ... complicated. I worked as a tech guy in a store for about three years, more than 15 years ago. I had a lot of autonomy in deciding what I could and couldn't do, what I would charge, whether I would waive charged, etc. At some point you just get jaded. You have this nice guy and it's all fine and you even go beyond what you need to do for them (sometimes even taking things home because they really needed it at 9am in the morning) and they're so thankful. And then they show up three days later even though you TOLD THEM you would take in home in the evening so they could have it by 9am the next day and they will shout at you over the €40 we agreed on like you just punched them in the face. Then there are the people who will physically threaten and even assault you... Had a few cases of that too. For those (profoundly) negative interaction you may have had a whole bunch of positive interactions, but negative interactions just register so much stronger. When you drive or cycle to work you may encounter hundreds or even thousands of other cars, but you only remember that one asshole. It's been a long time since I worked there, and I've had some time to reflect on things and my attitude when I worked there, and I'm also a bit older now. But if you're in the thick of it in your 20s ... yeah, it's complicated. If you're not careful you get jaded, start treating everyone like a potential asshole, and after a few years it becomes harder and harder to really care like you probably should and did when you first started. And for what it's worth, I do miss that job sometimes; I could really help regular folks in a very direct and satisfying way that I rarely do as a software developer.
londons_explore 4y ago
There is almost certainly a team at Apple with a very keen eye on this - many teams in fact - everyone from PR ready to do damage control to manufacturing trying to not make it happen anymore to engineering trying to come up with a fix or workaround to stop more screens in already sold products breaking. But none of those teams are allowed to make any noise externally till legal has fully understood the issue and decided what damage 'admitting' to the fault might cause in any potential future lawsuit. That's why it appears Apple isn't paying attention.
tomxor 4y ago
What's more surprising to me is that they haven't yet deleted the thread. This has happened many times in the past (customers complaining about widespread defects on Apple's support forum) and Apple usually deletes the threads or moderates them down enough to make it look plausibly deniable. My guess is that the current class action will probably look unfavourably upon such an action given there are more eyeballs on the matter and people have probably already scraped it by this point.
- krater23 4y ago
  https://web.archive.org/web/20220816030457/https://origin-discussions2-us-dr-prz.apple.com/en/thread/252794122?page=49 https://web.archive.org/web/20220816030457/https://origin-di... The internet never forgets...

jug 4y ago

Yeah these kinds of en masse reports have resulted in an Apple response in the past so here’s hoping for everyone subject to this. They use to be awfully reluctant though. An article in mainstream news and sustained pressure should help.

trophycase 4y ago

They likely know and don't care. My old macbook pro updated to the latest OS and it completely bricked the machine. Every time I'd try to watch a video the thing would overheat. Reverted the OS and the issue was completely fixed. Bought a new iphone recently and the camera simply can't focus at short range.

cycomanic 4y ago

Why would it? Seriously a large proportion even of the users bitten by this will still run to buy the next shiny apple device they release and then there is the other part of the users who are not affected and will blame the affected users for doing something wrong, because apple can't be in the wrong. I never understood the personal attachment and identification that some brands elicit it people (but credit to Apple to achieving this, and I don't mean this ironically. They must be doing something right to gather such a following).

noizejoy 4y ago
Benn Jordan just made a nice video explaining how brand loyalty is based on a deeply human trait: https://youtu.be/HqMMRh3VRT8 https://youtu.be/HqMMRh3VRT8
pattle 4y ago
I think having a strong personal attachment to a brand is actually pretty normal. If you spend a large chunk of your time using a companies products and those products make your easier/better it's understandable.
jamwil 4y ago
I don’t know that its what Apple does right but that the broader PC market continues to shoot itself in the foot. Little things like pre-installed bloatware and the inability to figure out smooth trackpad scrolling (still!) keep me firmly on Apple devices. And more recently, the M1 platform is remarkable, so I tip my hat to them for that and doing the basic stuff right (mostly—there have been blemishes obviously).
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  What floors me is I've had several hilariously cheap Chromebooks and they all have better trackpads than every single PC I've owned. How!?
  - bzzzt 4y ago
    Simple: because a single entity has responsibility for the entire product. PC's are built out of software from Microsoft, hardware from a random supplier (and probably a contractor who agreed to write a driver in a week), and a assembler/supplier like Dell or Lenovo who go for the lowest margin so can't and won't fix any of the mistakes of the other two parties.
8ytecoder 4y ago
It’s also because a good chunk of people also lie to get something fixed under warranty. Didn’t the other weak the article that rose to the front page talk in detail about the various frauds? I wish Apple wasn’t like this and spent time investigating each defect accurately to identify and issue “recalls”. They sure have the money to do it. But like every other capitalistic company - including the ones that put a 1 ton missile on the road - they fix something when they have a financial incentive to do it. Class action lawsuits are a good incentive. Loss of goodwill is a hard to quantify but important one as well. And I’m sure there’s a suit somewhere in Apple spaceship doing these calculations.
tomxor 4y ago
> credit to Apple to achieving this, and I don't mean this ironically. They must be doing something right to gather such a following Credit in a disgusting kind of way yes. A skill you can only admire abstractly. This kind of thing has been going on for well over a decade now, the reality distortion field that Jobs left behind is very real... It's China level of denialism, pretty sure Apple's internal media control slogan is "never admit fault, deny everything, at all cost" - even big fat class action cost, because that's cheaper than breaking the delusion of the pretty, perfect device with a massive markup. Once you've been burned once and they disrespect your intelligence you abandon them if you have any sense... but to be fair to others, some people become entrenched in the ecosystem and effectively have lockin, many of those poor souls do what any human does to protect their sanity in an impossible scenario, they lie to themselves to justify the economic and emotional cost to them - which ironically helps sustain the delusion for everyone else. Although maybe the single benefit of the big apps turning everything into a cloud subscription is that it reduces this somewhat. But everyone has limits, I'm convinced there is a critical mass Apple will disenchant where the illusion will finally be broken for everyone and they burn their image. Since the company is well and truly into the milking stage I'm sure this will happen sooner than later - Investors have limited life spans even if companies do not.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Gigachad 4y ago
You say this like other brands products are flawless and don't randomly break ever. So far Apple is the only tech brand I have had no issues with and has vastly exceeded the experience I have had with alternatives.

BitwiseFool 4y ago

Folks like you and I can interpret it this way, but the accountants and engineers at Apple would have to provide much more rigorous evidence to the high level executives that would need to sign off on some remediation program, recall, or redesign. Granted, at a lower level it could be used as justification to look into more rigorous/empirical investigation.

Spooky23 4y ago

You only hear about it because it’s Apple and they have like 6 SKUs of products that they sell millions of. When the batteries bulge or screens fail on some random Dell made by a subcontractor in Vietnam, nobody cares as they have like 80 models of laptop for every market segment. The bullshit thing in my mind is that Apple took away the ability for store staff to make discretionary calls to bypass stuff like this and do what’s right for the customer.

r3012 4y ago
> The bullshit thing in my mind is that Apple took away the ability for store staff to make discretionary calls to bypass stuff like this and do what’s right for the customer. It could be that, or retail workers are sick of us and aren't making calls in our direction anymore. https://www.businessinsider.com/retail-workers-leaving-quit-over-nightmare-customers-low-pay-2021-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/retail-workers-leaving-quit-...
- Kaze404 4y ago
  Who is "us" here? Abusive customers? I can't fathom someone coming into a store being nice as expected and a retail over fucking them over just because.
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    It absolutely happens, especially with lower class (as in "white trash" class, not working class) customers. Workers fuck with them just because they can.
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    It's ... complicated. I worked as a tech guy in a store for about three years, more than 15 years ago. I had a lot of autonomy in deciding what I could and couldn't do, what I would charge, whether I would waive charged, etc. At some point you just get jaded. You have this nice guy and it's all fine and you even go beyond what you need to do for them (sometimes even taking things home because they really needed it at 9am in the morning) and they're so thankful. And then they show up three days later even though you TOLD THEM you would take in home in the evening so they could have it by 9am the next day and they will shout at you over the €40 we agreed on like you just punched them in the face. Then there are the people who will physically threaten and even assault you... Had a few cases of that too. For those (profoundly) negative interaction you may have had a whole bunch of positive interactions, but negative interactions just register so much stronger. When you drive or cycle to work you may encounter hundreds or even thousands of other cars, but you only remember that one asshole. It's been a long time since I worked there, and I've had some time to reflect on things and my attitude when I worked there, and I'm also a bit older now. But if you're in the thick of it in your 20s ... yeah, it's complicated. If you're not careful you get jaded, start treating everyone like a potential asshole, and after a few years it becomes harder and harder to really care like you probably should and did when you first started. And for what it's worth, I do miss that job sometimes; I could really help regular folks in a very direct and satisfying way that I rarely do as a software developer.

londons_explore 4y ago

There is almost certainly a team at Apple with a very keen eye on this - many teams in fact - everyone from PR ready to do damage control to manufacturing trying to not make it happen anymore to engineering trying to come up with a fix or workaround to stop more screens in already sold products breaking. But none of those teams are allowed to make any noise externally till legal has fully understood the issue and decided what damage 'admitting' to the fault might cause in any potential future lawsuit. That's why it appears Apple isn't paying attention.

tomxor 4y ago

What's more surprising to me is that they haven't yet deleted the thread. This has happened many times in the past (customers complaining about widespread defects on Apple's support forum) and Apple usually deletes the threads or moderates them down enough to make it look plausibly deniable. My guess is that the current class action will probably look unfavourably upon such an action given there are more eyeballs on the matter and people have probably already scraped it by this point.

krater23 4y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20220816030457/https://origin-discussions2-us-dr-prz.apple.com/en/thread/252794122?page=49 https://web.archive.org/web/20220816030457/https://origin-di... The internet never forgets...