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"If your point #2 was true at ALL there would have to have been millions hospitalized from the vaccine… and we all know that’s not true." We actually have no i

"If your point #2 was true at ALL there would have to have been millions hospitalized from the vaccine… and we all know that’s not true." We actually have no idea how many people have become sick because of the vaccine because the medical system refuses to record vaccine injuries properly. But, consider the US reporting system. Most reports come from medical providers not individuals. There are in fact about 175,000 COVID vaccine hospitalizations reported and the underreporting factor for VAERS and similar systems is usually measured at ~40x, so that would indeed be millions. You might think that sounds obviously wrong but it doesn't to me. I don't have an unusually large social circle and I know people who went to the hospital for specialist checkups due to vaccine injuries, and I have one close friend who really should have gone but didn't (he had a heart attack but fortunately it wasn't fatal and he seems OK now). Millions of people with hospital-visit-worthy injuries is well within the bounds of what seems possible in a big country like the USA, let alone globally.

kennywinker 4y ago
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-s-vaccine-injury-support-program-receives-more-than-700-claims-approves-eight-1.5946249 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-s-vaccine-i... Scale that up to the US population and we’d expect around 7000 people claiming vaccine injury. Note that there is money in the program in Canada, so pretty good incentive to apply. To say that I’m skeptical of your 170,000 number (google shows no interesting results for “vaccine injury 170,000”) would be an understatement Edit: https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data There is a similar program in the US, and less than 10,000 claims have been made.
- origin_path 4y ago
  The number comes from the USG database: https://openvaers.com/ https://openvaers.com/
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    That’s entirely self-reported, and according to that there have been 30k deaths due to covid vaccine. Not sure how people are self-reporting their own death - but I strongly suspect that data has been influenced by people’s political beliefs and isn’t an accurate representation of real events.
    - origin_path 4y ago
      Did you consider the obvious possibility that there are 30k deaths reported because it is not in fact self reported? Whoever told you that wasn't being honest. VAERS reports aren't even mostly self reported. Go browse through the reports. You'll discover they mostly come from medical professionals. But even for the ones that are self-reported, so what? If someone is filling out complex forms with specific details of an injury that they think was caused by the vaccine, that is an important signal. "I strongly suspect that data has been influenced by people’s political beliefs and isn’t an accurate representation of real events." Absolutely correct! The vast majority of people have been told that doubting the vaccines is not allowed and will result in immediate and severe retaliation by ideological extremists, who are entirely committed to defending the public health bureaucracy. The historical underreporting factor was something like 40x but ideology and politics has surely hugely increased it now. Obviously what you're claiming is the opposite - that for some reason huge numbers of people have been filling out bogus, untrue injury reports. It's a delusional belief. Go find evidence of that and then we'll talk. Until then the evidence is on the side of massive under-reporting of a major tragedy by people who ideologically cannot or will not accept that The Science is made up of liars and incompetents.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        If there had been 30k deaths, or 170k injuries, there would be other sources corroborating those numbers. Believing a single source of data that is easily skewed - like for example the data you’ve cited - is as you say: delusional > that for some reason huge numbers of people have been filling out bogus, untrue injury reports. It's a delusional belief. Go find evidence of that and then we'll talk. Evidence like the 9k people in the US seeking financial compensation for vaccine injury? You’re comfortable with the idea that less than 5% of people impacted bothered to try to get money for their suffering? 170k injuries and 30k deaths would make for some biiig class action lawsuits but those don’t seem to be showing up anywhere

kennywinker 4y ago

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-s-vaccine-injury-support-program-receives-more-than-700-claims-approves-eight-1.5946249 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-s-vaccine-i... Scale that up to the US population and we’d expect around 7000 people claiming vaccine injury. Note that there is money in the program in Canada, so pretty good incentive to apply. To say that I’m skeptical of your 170,000 number (google shows no interesting results for “vaccine injury 170,000”) would be an understatement Edit: https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data There is a similar program in the US, and less than 10,000 claims have been made.

origin_path 4y ago
The number comes from the USG database: https://openvaers.com/ https://openvaers.com/
- kennywinker 4y ago
  That’s entirely self-reported, and according to that there have been 30k deaths due to covid vaccine. Not sure how people are self-reporting their own death - but I strongly suspect that data has been influenced by people’s political beliefs and isn’t an accurate representation of real events.
  - origin_path 4y ago
    Did you consider the obvious possibility that there are 30k deaths reported because it is not in fact self reported? Whoever told you that wasn't being honest. VAERS reports aren't even mostly self reported. Go browse through the reports. You'll discover they mostly come from medical professionals. But even for the ones that are self-reported, so what? If someone is filling out complex forms with specific details of an injury that they think was caused by the vaccine, that is an important signal. "I strongly suspect that data has been influenced by people’s political beliefs and isn’t an accurate representation of real events." Absolutely correct! The vast majority of people have been told that doubting the vaccines is not allowed and will result in immediate and severe retaliation by ideological extremists, who are entirely committed to defending the public health bureaucracy. The historical underreporting factor was something like 40x but ideology and politics has surely hugely increased it now. Obviously what you're claiming is the opposite - that for some reason huge numbers of people have been filling out bogus, untrue injury reports. It's a delusional belief. Go find evidence of that and then we'll talk. Until then the evidence is on the side of massive under-reporting of a major tragedy by people who ideologically cannot or will not accept that The Science is made up of liars and incompetents.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      If there had been 30k deaths, or 170k injuries, there would be other sources corroborating those numbers. Believing a single source of data that is easily skewed - like for example the data you’ve cited - is as you say: delusional > that for some reason huge numbers of people have been filling out bogus, untrue injury reports. It's a delusional belief. Go find evidence of that and then we'll talk. Evidence like the 9k people in the US seeking financial compensation for vaccine injury? You’re comfortable with the idea that less than 5% of people impacted bothered to try to get money for their suffering? 170k injuries and 30k deaths would make for some biiig class action lawsuits but those don’t seem to be showing up anywhere