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I've been told that Australia also doesn't have domestic solar panel industry, which meant that solar panels made in China can be imported without tariff. Inst

I've been told that Australia also doesn't have domestic solar panel industry, which meant that solar panels made in China can be imported without tariff. Installation cost for HVAC systems in US/Canada is also silly. In Asia, you walk into a department store and pick a system, and then pay 10~15% of the equipment price for installation. In the US, the cost of hardware is only 30% of the total quoted price and you will not get a price breakdown like you do at auto repair shops.

adolph 4y ago
Asia::NA HVAC is kind of apples::oranges, right? Labor costs are different, home-use devices are different, etc. On the other hand, how much of the purchase experience is driven by the consumer rather than the producer? HVAC is high capital and labor, low distribution volume. Why would a department store (if people still go to such things) devote space to it? Unlike various appliances (see discussion yesterday about decreases in quality driving increased purchase volume [0]), an HVAC is like roofing. Except for the thermostat and port covers everything is hidden and not part of a consumer aesthetic/emotional experience. 0. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32462954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32462954
- a_square_peg 4y ago
  It's not very different from Home Depot or Costco having sections for HVAC installation. Mini-splits are very common in Asia and is in fact easier to install (e.g. no ducting). However in the US, mini-splits being new have sort of taken on the legacy HVAC installation pricing plus some premium. You're correct that labour cost is higher in the US but it doesn't explain the 10x cost in installation - I've seen too many people overpay by $10~20k for a system they don't need. In terms of distribution, HVAC has similar volume to other major home appliances so it's not necessarily low I think. For customer experience... yeah, it's something that most people don't think about until it breaks I suppose.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    What are US insurance costs. I'm talking 'oops we burned your house down insurance', 'oops we fell off a ladder insurance', and 'oh, I want to go get a checkup insurance'. These things are frighteningly expensive in the US. Also in the US, how many laborers can they get to install these things. We've been running at 3-4% unemployment for some time now. When people can go get a job in an office they tend to do that long before doing physical labor these days, so a lot of premium is going towards that labor cost.
- denimnerd42 4y ago
  In Asia it's like all mini split systems right? So they are seen. but I don't know why the OP decided to compare Asia vs US given this big difference. Mini splits are super simple to install so it would make since it's cheaper.

adolph 4y ago

Asia::NA HVAC is kind of apples::oranges, right? Labor costs are different, home-use devices are different, etc. On the other hand, how much of the purchase experience is driven by the consumer rather than the producer? HVAC is high capital and labor, low distribution volume. Why would a department store (if people still go to such things) devote space to it? Unlike various appliances (see discussion yesterday about decreases in quality driving increased purchase volume [0]), an HVAC is like roofing. Except for the thermostat and port covers everything is hidden and not part of a consumer aesthetic/emotional experience. 0. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32462954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32462954

a_square_peg 4y ago
It's not very different from Home Depot or Costco having sections for HVAC installation. Mini-splits are very common in Asia and is in fact easier to install (e.g. no ducting). However in the US, mini-splits being new have sort of taken on the legacy HVAC installation pricing plus some premium. You're correct that labour cost is higher in the US but it doesn't explain the 10x cost in installation - I've seen too many people overpay by $10~20k for a system they don't need. In terms of distribution, HVAC has similar volume to other major home appliances so it's not necessarily low I think. For customer experience... yeah, it's something that most people don't think about until it breaks I suppose.
- pixl97 4y ago
  What are US insurance costs. I'm talking 'oops we burned your house down insurance', 'oops we fell off a ladder insurance', and 'oh, I want to go get a checkup insurance'. These things are frighteningly expensive in the US. Also in the US, how many laborers can they get to install these things. We've been running at 3-4% unemployment for some time now. When people can go get a job in an office they tend to do that long before doing physical labor these days, so a lot of premium is going towards that labor cost.
denimnerd42 4y ago
In Asia it's like all mini split systems right? So they are seen. but I don't know why the OP decided to compare Asia vs US given this big difference. Mini splits are super simple to install so it would make since it's cheaper.