4 ms·

I'm a bit confused by the "re"-hiragana example in the screenshot on the website. It says "れ" is pronounced like the "re" in "red" or "ferret". This probably de

by elric 4y ago

I'm a bit confused by the "re"-hiragana example in the screenshot on the website. It says "れ" is pronounced like the "re" in "red" or "ferret". This probably depends on which English dialect one speaks, because when I pronounce them, the "re" in "red" or "ferret" sound nothing alike, and neither of them sound like Japanese "れ".

BossingAround 4y ago
That's because a lot of native English speakers (not all though) do not know how to pronounce rolling R's. You won't solve that on a paper through textbook. "red" is the best the textbook can do, I'd think.
- katspaugh 4y ago
  The Japanese R not being a rolling R doesn’t make it easier either. It’s a single tap. Americans are actually familiar with this sound in words like water and butter. The alveolar tap in the middle (the T) is close to where the Japanese R/L is produced.
- cthalupa 4y ago
  I don't know that the re in "red" and れ really sound nothing alike, though. If you want to reduce it down to something simplistic, "ray" would be a lot closer, if still not actually all that close. For the r sound specifically, it's like 60% r, 30% l, 10% d. Most people don't struggle with getting it passable once someone teaches them that it's more about tongue positioning than anything. Have someone say "la" and "da" back and forth a few times, tell them to position their tongue touching the roof of their mouth in between the position it is for la and da while trying to make an r sound, and they'll probably be pretty close. And once your understand where the difference is on pronunciation vs an english r, you know what to start tweaking as you try to match native pronunciation.
dymk 4y ago
Learning Japanese phonology from a written resource will always be a losing battle. It's alright for getting the most basic understanding of what the mora kind of sounds like, but one must practice with audio resources to improve their phonology. Pimsleur and Dōgen (on Patreon) are great for this. It's super uncommon that you find written JP resources that go in depth about e.g. the vowel devoicing rules, or how っ works.
- elric 4y ago
  I agree, and it's unfair of me to judge it based on a single screenshot. I hope the book explains its assumptions about phonetics somewhere, so that actual learners don't end up confused.

by elric 4y ago

BossingAround 4y ago

That's because a lot of native English speakers (not all though) do not know how to pronounce rolling R's. You won't solve that on a paper through textbook. "red" is the best the textbook can do, I'd think.

katspaugh 4y ago
The Japanese R not being a rolling R doesn’t make it easier either. It’s a single tap. Americans are actually familiar with this sound in words like water and butter. The alveolar tap in the middle (the T) is close to where the Japanese R/L is produced.
cthalupa 4y ago
I don't know that the re in "red" and れ really sound nothing alike, though. If you want to reduce it down to something simplistic, "ray" would be a lot closer, if still not actually all that close. For the r sound specifically, it's like 60% r, 30% l, 10% d. Most people don't struggle with getting it passable once someone teaches them that it's more about tongue positioning than anything. Have someone say "la" and "da" back and forth a few times, tell them to position their tongue touching the roof of their mouth in between the position it is for la and da while trying to make an r sound, and they'll probably be pretty close. And once your understand where the difference is on pronunciation vs an english r, you know what to start tweaking as you try to match native pronunciation.

dymk 4y ago

Learning Japanese phonology from a written resource will always be a losing battle. It's alright for getting the most basic understanding of what the mora kind of sounds like, but one must practice with audio resources to improve their phonology. Pimsleur and Dōgen (on Patreon) are great for this. It's super uncommon that you find written JP resources that go in depth about e.g. the vowel devoicing rules, or how っ works.

elric 4y ago
I agree, and it's unfair of me to judge it based on a single screenshot. I hope the book explains its assumptions about phonetics somewhere, so that actual learners don't end up confused.