5 ms·

> There are a lot of things that go into it, but from my point of view, it really feels like it's a lot of "Because we can, and because we convince people to pa

by xienze 4y ago

> There are a lot of things that go into it, but from my point of view, it really feels like it's a lot of "Because we can, and because we convince people to pay it" going on with the installed costs. I think this happens a lot with anything that’s relatively expensive. I mean let’s say you could get your 21kW system down to $8K installed. A lot of people just don’t have that kind of money laying around. But they’d be more than happy to finance $12K (so 50% markup) if the monthly payment comes out OK. So basically, anything expensive has a lot of room for “value add” in the form of making it “affordable.” Solar I think is never going to be so cheap that people will generally pay for it outright, so you’re going to see a lot of this.

Syonyk 4y ago
> A lot of people just don’t have that kind of money laying around. Probably because they approach finances in terms of the "monthly payment, I can afford it!" solution that's so profitable to lenders. Paying 50% more for the system "so I can get monthly payments" is not a way to having any actual savings, long term. And when salestypes are playing games with the "dial-a-power-inflation-rate" knob to make your savings look amazing, it suckers some people in. Even as the power company is moving to change net metering requirements, very few salespeople seem to ever bother mentioning that you're unlikely to actually see 25 years of kWh for kWh net metering on a new install. I don't run in particularly high income circles, but I do run in quite frugal circles, and the people I've been helping out with solar installs are, in fact, just buying things cash (after scrounging around for the best deals). I've been able to help this process some by facilitating some bulk purchases (the last order was 100x 72 cell panels, we ordered enough to be under $0.50/W on them), and I've traded some panels and other equipment for labor on various things as well ("I'll pay for the materials, pay you in inverters or something for the labor"), but... loans just aren't how any of the people I know out here (rural mountain west farm country) work.
- pixl97 4y ago
  Then build a 'solar co-op', co-ops seem more popular in farming communities than cities. In sub-urban and more urban areas people don't tend to work together, hence take out loans on things like this. Of course at the same time, you're assuming power prices go down, or even remain stable at their current price over time, which may or may not happen. In Texas our bills have jumped after the great freeze debacle.
  - Syonyk 4y ago
    I'm working on what that looks like in a few forms. I'm not a licensed electrician, nor do I have the slightest desire to be one. But I do like helping people, who are capable of generally doing their own work, install dirt cheap grid tie solar ($1/W being the current target price). And I've got the cashflow to trade solar parts for other things without worrying too much about it (my deck railing is likely to be paid for with cash for materials, solar inverters for the labor). So I'm trying to help optimize the design phase, and "Here's what it should look like, electrically." And, of course, nobody has said I can't help build the actual ground mount supports, or pull wire, or... generally help out.

by xienze 4y ago

Syonyk 4y ago

> A lot of people just don’t have that kind of money laying around. Probably because they approach finances in terms of the "monthly payment, I can afford it!" solution that's so profitable to lenders. Paying 50% more for the system "so I can get monthly payments" is not a way to having any actual savings, long term. And when salestypes are playing games with the "dial-a-power-inflation-rate" knob to make your savings look amazing, it suckers some people in. Even as the power company is moving to change net metering requirements, very few salespeople seem to ever bother mentioning that you're unlikely to actually see 25 years of kWh for kWh net metering on a new install. I don't run in particularly high income circles, but I do run in quite frugal circles, and the people I've been helping out with solar installs are, in fact, just buying things cash (after scrounging around for the best deals). I've been able to help this process some by facilitating some bulk purchases (the last order was 100x 72 cell panels, we ordered enough to be under $0.50/W on them), and I've traded some panels and other equipment for labor on various things as well ("I'll pay for the materials, pay you in inverters or something for the labor"), but... loans just aren't how any of the people I know out here (rural mountain west farm country) work.

pixl97 4y ago
Then build a 'solar co-op', co-ops seem more popular in farming communities than cities. In sub-urban and more urban areas people don't tend to work together, hence take out loans on things like this. Of course at the same time, you're assuming power prices go down, or even remain stable at their current price over time, which may or may not happen. In Texas our bills have jumped after the great freeze debacle.
- Syonyk 4y ago
  I'm working on what that looks like in a few forms. I'm not a licensed electrician, nor do I have the slightest desire to be one. But I do like helping people, who are capable of generally doing their own work, install dirt cheap grid tie solar ($1/W being the current target price). And I've got the cashflow to trade solar parts for other things without worrying too much about it (my deck railing is likely to be paid for with cash for materials, solar inverters for the labor). So I'm trying to help optimize the design phase, and "Here's what it should look like, electrically." And, of course, nobody has said I can't help build the actual ground mount supports, or pull wire, or... generally help out.