4 ms·

Re your first point. This was always true. The cdc has always had a page listing incidents from vaccines. They’re just EXCEEDINGLY rare, much rarer than bad hea

Re your first point. This was always true. The cdc has always had a page listing incidents from vaccines. They’re just EXCEEDINGLY rare, much rarer than bad health outcomes from covid. If your point #2 was true at ALL there would have to have been millions hospitalized from the vaccine… and we all know that’s not true. Covid has BECOME a disease that primarily effects the elderly and immunocompromised. That was due to the huge vaccination efforts, and mutations in the disease. Either way, I’m still wearing a mask when I go grocery shopping because I don’t want to be the one who gives covid to someone’s grandma, or someone doing chemotherapy.

overrun11 4y ago
> Covid has BECOME a disease that primarily effects the elderly and immunocompromised. Could you point to a reference on this? My understanding was COVID had always primarily affected the elderly and immunocompromised.
- TheCoelacanth 4y ago
  Depends on how you define "primarily". Elderly and immunocompromised have always been at a much higher risk, but there were still thousands of young, healthy people who died in the pre-vaccine days.
  - kurupt213 4y ago
    This isn’t true.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      It, in fact, is true.
      - netmonk 4y ago
        May be your definition of “healthy” might be reviewed. Most <40yo dying were morbid obese. Not healthy.
        kennywinker 4y ago
        No professional or statistician would describe someone who is “morbidly obese” as not having underlying conditions
  - origin_path 4y ago
    Thousands globally? Maybe. If you look at places that didn't overreact like Sweden then there's no excess death under 75, so young people weren't dying regardless of health. In other parts of Europe there was no excess death under 45 but many countries over-reacted especially at the start with ventilator abuse, so that would have hurt the numbers.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kennywinker 4y ago
  Depends on how you interpret "primarily affected". Like, yeah, it always had an outsized impact on the elderly and immunocompromised - but the vaccine and changes in the virus have lead to a pretty decent decrease in risk for younger people. And no I'm not going to go do your reading for you. Vaccine effectiveness stats are easily googled. Reports on omicron's reduced severity are also easily googled.
- netmonk 4y ago
  The day peoples will understand that BMI > 30 induces immnunodepression. Obese peoples have 5 to 6 times more chance to die from any respiratory disease than normal peoples. Also affecting effectiveness of any vaccine by halving it for obese peoples. Covid-19 was primarily fat shaming, and also naturally targeting old peoples cause they are often weak at advanced age.
origin_path 4y ago
"If your point #2 was true at ALL there would have to have been millions hospitalized from the vaccine… and we all know that’s not true." We actually have no idea how many people have become sick because of the vaccine because the medical system refuses to record vaccine injuries properly. But, consider the US reporting system. Most reports come from medical providers not individuals. There are in fact about 175,000 COVID vaccine hospitalizations reported and the underreporting factor for VAERS and similar systems is usually measured at ~40x, so that would indeed be millions. You might think that sounds obviously wrong but it doesn't to me. I don't have an unusually large social circle and I know people who went to the hospital for specialist checkups due to vaccine injuries, and I have one close friend who really should have gone but didn't (he had a heart attack but fortunately it wasn't fatal and he seems OK now). Millions of people with hospital-visit-worthy injuries is well within the bounds of what seems possible in a big country like the USA, let alone globally.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-s-vaccine-injury-support-program-receives-more-than-700-claims-approves-eight-1.5946249 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-s-vaccine-i... Scale that up to the US population and we’d expect around 7000 people claiming vaccine injury. Note that there is money in the program in Canada, so pretty good incentive to apply. To say that I’m skeptical of your 170,000 number (google shows no interesting results for “vaccine injury 170,000”) would be an understatement Edit: https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data There is a similar program in the US, and less than 10,000 claims have been made.
  - origin_path 4y ago
    The number comes from the USG database: https://openvaers.com/ https://openvaers.com/
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      That’s entirely self-reported, and according to that there have been 30k deaths due to covid vaccine. Not sure how people are self-reporting their own death - but I strongly suspect that data has been influenced by people’s political beliefs and isn’t an accurate representation of real events.

overrun11 4y ago

> Covid has BECOME a disease that primarily effects the elderly and immunocompromised. Could you point to a reference on this? My understanding was COVID had always primarily affected the elderly and immunocompromised.

TheCoelacanth 4y ago
Depends on how you define "primarily". Elderly and immunocompromised have always been at a much higher risk, but there were still thousands of young, healthy people who died in the pre-vaccine days.
- kurupt213 4y ago
  This isn’t true.
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    It, in fact, is true.
    - netmonk 4y ago
      May be your definition of “healthy” might be reviewed. Most <40yo dying were morbid obese. Not healthy.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        No professional or statistician would describe someone who is “morbidly obese” as not having underlying conditions
- origin_path 4y ago
  Thousands globally? Maybe. If you look at places that didn't overreact like Sweden then there's no excess death under 75, so young people weren't dying regardless of health. In other parts of Europe there was no excess death under 45 but many countries over-reacted especially at the start with ventilator abuse, so that would have hurt the numbers.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kennywinker 4y ago
Depends on how you interpret "primarily affected". Like, yeah, it always had an outsized impact on the elderly and immunocompromised - but the vaccine and changes in the virus have lead to a pretty decent decrease in risk for younger people. And no I'm not going to go do your reading for you. Vaccine effectiveness stats are easily googled. Reports on omicron's reduced severity are also easily googled.
netmonk 4y ago
The day peoples will understand that BMI > 30 induces immnunodepression. Obese peoples have 5 to 6 times more chance to die from any respiratory disease than normal peoples. Also affecting effectiveness of any vaccine by halving it for obese peoples. Covid-19 was primarily fat shaming, and also naturally targeting old peoples cause they are often weak at advanced age.

origin_path 4y ago

"If your point #2 was true at ALL there would have to have been millions hospitalized from the vaccine… and we all know that’s not true." We actually have no idea how many people have become sick because of the vaccine because the medical system refuses to record vaccine injuries properly. But, consider the US reporting system. Most reports come from medical providers not individuals. There are in fact about 175,000 COVID vaccine hospitalizations reported and the underreporting factor for VAERS and similar systems is usually measured at ~40x, so that would indeed be millions. You might think that sounds obviously wrong but it doesn't to me. I don't have an unusually large social circle and I know people who went to the hospital for specialist checkups due to vaccine injuries, and I have one close friend who really should have gone but didn't (he had a heart attack but fortunately it wasn't fatal and he seems OK now). Millions of people with hospital-visit-worthy injuries is well within the bounds of what seems possible in a big country like the USA, let alone globally.

kennywinker 4y ago
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-s-vaccine-injury-support-program-receives-more-than-700-claims-approves-eight-1.5946249 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-s-vaccine-i... Scale that up to the US population and we’d expect around 7000 people claiming vaccine injury. Note that there is money in the program in Canada, so pretty good incentive to apply. To say that I’m skeptical of your 170,000 number (google shows no interesting results for “vaccine injury 170,000”) would be an understatement Edit: https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data There is a similar program in the US, and less than 10,000 claims have been made.
- origin_path 4y ago
  The number comes from the USG database: https://openvaers.com/ https://openvaers.com/
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    That’s entirely self-reported, and according to that there have been 30k deaths due to covid vaccine. Not sure how people are self-reporting their own death - but I strongly suspect that data has been influenced by people’s political beliefs and isn’t an accurate representation of real events.