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Kinda burying the lede: > To a large degree, it appears the lack of regulatory oversight has allowed for the cheap installation of sub-standard solar panel sys

Kinda burying the lede: > To a large degree, it appears the lack of regulatory oversight has allowed for the cheap installation of sub-standard solar panel systems, from the solar equipment and components used in the installation to the actual installation of the solar panels. Interestingly, the same policy and market forces that have helped deliver inexpensive solar to Australian residents are also responsible for the issues observed with Australian solar installations. Though these policies have reduced the time to installation, they’ve also reduced the opportunity to catch errors in installation or issues with equipment. So, TCO for 20-25 years of service might be a better metric to be using here.

zbrozek 4y ago
Inspectors don't have infinite expertise, and I've found that they're not really any better at catching or avoiding trades errors than the practitioner. Given the high level of maturity that quality products have achieved and the significant degree of self-protection and fault-isolation that have been built in, I'm inclined to let any random person install with zero oversight and let them deal with any problems that arise. Probably the only thing really worth doing is ensuring that products available in a marketplace actually implement requisite user-safety, grid-safety, and self-protection mechanisms. It's too easy in most places to get shady garbage equipment.
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  >Inspectors don't have infinite expertise, and I've found that they're not really any better at catching or avoiding trades errors than the practitioner. I think you're missing the whole point of inspectors. They aren't primarily there to be experts for the well-intentioned contractors to use to catch honest oversights they made (although they can do that too sometimes). They're there to catch the less scrupulous people who take advantage of an ignorant homeowner by making the job seem to be done well but in fact actually doing it dangerously and/or poorly. There is a massive incentive to do this kind of work poorly, because it leads to being able to do it quickly and fitting in more jobs means making more money.
  - Jensson 4y ago
    How do you know those mandatory inspections doesn't come from oil lobbyists trying to make solar more expensive than it has to be? You can always frame bad regulations to look reasonable.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Because the same exact inspector shows up to inspect the electrical installation powered by oil?
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        My house was already inspected for the electrical installation currently powered by [mostly natural gas]. It would need additional inspections if I wanted to add grid-tie solar.
        kube-system 4y ago
        My house’s electrical was already inspected too. It still needed inspected again when I had maintenance done on the system. The inspection is because electrical systems can burn houses down if they’re not installed correctly. It has nothing to do with the source of the energy at the other end of the wire.
        toast0 4y ago
        Sure, but if your house already had grid-tie solar and you wanted to add a natural gas generator, you'd need the same kind of inspections.
        sokoloff 4y ago
        Which happens to be substantially the reason I don't have a natural gas standby generator (in this case, the gatekeeping/protectionism of electricians by my state, as enforced at the end by the permitting process).
      - 4y ago
_ea1k 4y ago
TBH, I find that doubtful. If my installer chooses cheap inverters or microinverters, my local inspector won't know or care. The issues with inspections in the US are more around timing and difficulty. Utilities are not required to respond in a timely manner, so solar companies spend inordinate amounts of time managing the inspection process.
- dymk 4y ago
  Your inspector may not care, but the licensed and bonded contractor that did the install does care if their work falls through your roof in 10 years time.
  - hedora 4y ago
    You mean the one that was founded a few years ago, and will be "out of business" (operating as a different company) before that happens? I think our installer is likely to be in business in 10 years, but we have friends whose installers will certainly be out of business by then. (Guess whose installation appears to be riddled with substandard parts.)
    - novaleaf 4y ago
      I learned this lesson the hard way with a roof install :(
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    I've only had one install done. The issue was a failed power optimizing after only a couple of years. My guess is that the issues in Australia are similar, with substandard equipment and maybe even questionable wiring. I've seen enough of that with US systems to doubt that our systems are more effective at stopping it.

zbrozek 4y ago

Inspectors don't have infinite expertise, and I've found that they're not really any better at catching or avoiding trades errors than the practitioner. Given the high level of maturity that quality products have achieved and the significant degree of self-protection and fault-isolation that have been built in, I'm inclined to let any random person install with zero oversight and let them deal with any problems that arise. Probably the only thing really worth doing is ensuring that products available in a marketplace actually implement requisite user-safety, grid-safety, and self-protection mechanisms. It's too easy in most places to get shady garbage equipment.

idiotsecant 4y ago
>Inspectors don't have infinite expertise, and I've found that they're not really any better at catching or avoiding trades errors than the practitioner. I think you're missing the whole point of inspectors. They aren't primarily there to be experts for the well-intentioned contractors to use to catch honest oversights they made (although they can do that too sometimes). They're there to catch the less scrupulous people who take advantage of an ignorant homeowner by making the job seem to be done well but in fact actually doing it dangerously and/or poorly. There is a massive incentive to do this kind of work poorly, because it leads to being able to do it quickly and fitting in more jobs means making more money.
- Jensson 4y ago
  How do you know those mandatory inspections doesn't come from oil lobbyists trying to make solar more expensive than it has to be? You can always frame bad regulations to look reasonable.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Because the same exact inspector shows up to inspect the electrical installation powered by oil?
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      My house was already inspected for the electrical installation currently powered by [mostly natural gas]. It would need additional inspections if I wanted to add grid-tie solar.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        My house’s electrical was already inspected too. It still needed inspected again when I had maintenance done on the system. The inspection is because electrical systems can burn houses down if they’re not installed correctly. It has nothing to do with the source of the energy at the other end of the wire.
      - toast0 4y ago
        Sure, but if your house already had grid-tie solar and you wanted to add a natural gas generator, you'd need the same kind of inspections.
        sokoloff 4y ago
        Which happens to be substantially the reason I don't have a natural gas standby generator (in this case, the gatekeeping/protectionism of electricians by my state, as enforced at the end by the permitting process).
    - 4y ago

_ea1k 4y ago

TBH, I find that doubtful. If my installer chooses cheap inverters or microinverters, my local inspector won't know or care. The issues with inspections in the US are more around timing and difficulty. Utilities are not required to respond in a timely manner, so solar companies spend inordinate amounts of time managing the inspection process.

dymk 4y ago
Your inspector may not care, but the licensed and bonded contractor that did the install does care if their work falls through your roof in 10 years time.
- hedora 4y ago
  You mean the one that was founded a few years ago, and will be "out of business" (operating as a different company) before that happens? I think our installer is likely to be in business in 10 years, but we have friends whose installers will certainly be out of business by then. (Guess whose installation appears to be riddled with substandard parts.)
  - novaleaf 4y ago
    I learned this lesson the hard way with a roof install :(
- _ea1k 4y ago
  I've only had one install done. The issue was a failed power optimizing after only a couple of years. My guess is that the issues in Australia are similar, with substandard equipment and maybe even questionable wiring. I've seen enough of that with US systems to doubt that our systems are more effective at stopping it.