7 ms·

No offense to our German audience, but this type of rude and unfriendly cutting-off totally has "typical German big-business behavior" written all over it.

pteraspidomorph 4y ago
This is also my experience. Hetzner specifically never did this to me but several years ago I pulled all my server and web stuff permanently out of Germany due to this kind of behavior. (At the time I tried discussing the subject on webhostingtalk, but they sided with the business.)
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Yeah, can't speak about Hetzner, but I've also noticed that compared to UK, NL and EE at least, post-sale German customer support is a joke in most cases, it's basically non-existent, especially at the traditional German companies who's attitude is a rude: "the customer is always at fault". Once your signature is dry on the contract and they have your money, they don't give a damn. Especially since many contracts and subscriptions for especial services are nearly impossible to cancel without huge penalties for the customer. Real estate, gyms and Telcos are probably the most infamous anti consumer businesses in Germany. German businesses are also notoriously litigious: One time, I went to a bicycle shop to have a snapped derailleur cable fixed, and when I picked up my bike and paid, I noticed the chain kept rubbing on the derailleur. So when I showed it to the shop owner he kept pretending that's not an issue and telling me that that's how it's supposed to be and that if I don't like it, I should pay him another >€95 for a full service so he can look into that. I stopped trying to argue with him and took my bike to another service that fixed it for €5, and left a one star review on their google maps explaining the issues they left my bike saddled with and the cheek and audacity the owner had in shifting the blame. After a few weeks I get a letter from the bike shop's lawyer telling me to take down the comment as it's libel without proof and I will have to pay them the cost of the business opportunities they lost due to my negative comment, so I had to spend more money and lawyer up as well to defend myself against that fraudulent bike shop. That's how that shop and many other business in Germany only have positive reviews: they get the negative ones removed under some archaic libel law. Even my German friend confirmed to me that that's the modus-operandi of many German businesses, basically constantly screwing over thier customer base and hoping you're not gonna bother to fight them in court (especially if you're a foreigner who doesn't know the laws and doesn't have time and money for lawyers). Awful place to be a customer in.
- buscoquadnary 4y ago
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    You can stop drawing straw men now. I never said that's a "German only thing", I'm sure it happens in other places as well. I just chipped in with my anecdotal experiences and said that compared to other countries, even Eastern European ones, my customer support experiences in Germany have been noticeably worse across the board and even Germans who've been abroad have agreed and pointed it out as an issue.
    - solardev 4y ago
      Not the person you're replying to, but just wanted to chime in and say I appreciated your anecdote. It's nice to hear about things on the other side of the ocean from time to time.
  - jkaplowitz 4y ago
    Libel laws in the US are extremely different than those described. I believe UK ones are far more similar to it than the US ones.
- Foobar8568 4y ago
  - throwawayacc2 4y ago
    - dang 4y ago
      You can't post nationalistic slurs to HN, regardless of which group you have a problem with. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on.
odiroot 4y ago
Yep, this smells of "scheiß egal".
ldoughty 4y ago
Not just German big-business.... American big businesses are the same way... If you want to use Apple, Google, or Facebook services for your business / as part of your business, they often treat you the same way.... "Do what we say, or you're presence here will be terminated"
dang 4y ago
Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32470266 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32470266.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- daneel_w 4y ago
  I had no such intention with my post. This feels like an offensive accusation.
  - dang 4y ago
    Oh I certainly believe you that you had no such intention, but we have to go by effects, not intent. I've written about this many times, so if you or anyone want further explanation, you can find it at these links: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=disambiguate%20burden%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=troll%20effects%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... In the case of your comment, pejorative generalizations about national groups counts as nationalistic flamebait (that is, it has the effect, in the general case, of provoking nationalistic flamewar) whether you intended that or not.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rowanG077 4y ago
Google is actually German confirmed.

pteraspidomorph 4y ago

This is also my experience. Hetzner specifically never did this to me but several years ago I pulled all my server and web stuff permanently out of Germany due to this kind of behavior. (At the time I tried discussing the subject on webhostingtalk, but they sided with the business.)

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

Yeah, can't speak about Hetzner, but I've also noticed that compared to UK, NL and EE at least, post-sale German customer support is a joke in most cases, it's basically non-existent, especially at the traditional German companies who's attitude is a rude: "the customer is always at fault". Once your signature is dry on the contract and they have your money, they don't give a damn. Especially since many contracts and subscriptions for especial services are nearly impossible to cancel without huge penalties for the customer. Real estate, gyms and Telcos are probably the most infamous anti consumer businesses in Germany. German businesses are also notoriously litigious: One time, I went to a bicycle shop to have a snapped derailleur cable fixed, and when I picked up my bike and paid, I noticed the chain kept rubbing on the derailleur. So when I showed it to the shop owner he kept pretending that's not an issue and telling me that that's how it's supposed to be and that if I don't like it, I should pay him another >€95 for a full service so he can look into that. I stopped trying to argue with him and took my bike to another service that fixed it for €5, and left a one star review on their google maps explaining the issues they left my bike saddled with and the cheek and audacity the owner had in shifting the blame. After a few weeks I get a letter from the bike shop's lawyer telling me to take down the comment as it's libel without proof and I will have to pay them the cost of the business opportunities they lost due to my negative comment, so I had to spend more money and lawyer up as well to defend myself against that fraudulent bike shop. That's how that shop and many other business in Germany only have positive reviews: they get the negative ones removed under some archaic libel law. Even my German friend confirmed to me that that's the modus-operandi of many German businesses, basically constantly screwing over thier customer base and hoping you're not gonna bother to fight them in court (especially if you're a foreigner who doesn't know the laws and doesn't have time and money for lawyers). Awful place to be a customer in.

buscoquadnary 4y ago
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  You can stop drawing straw men now. I never said that's a "German only thing", I'm sure it happens in other places as well. I just chipped in with my anecdotal experiences and said that compared to other countries, even Eastern European ones, my customer support experiences in Germany have been noticeably worse across the board and even Germans who've been abroad have agreed and pointed it out as an issue.
  - solardev 4y ago
    Not the person you're replying to, but just wanted to chime in and say I appreciated your anecdote. It's nice to hear about things on the other side of the ocean from time to time.
- jkaplowitz 4y ago
  Libel laws in the US are extremely different than those described. I believe UK ones are far more similar to it than the US ones.
Foobar8568 4y ago
- throwawayacc2 4y ago
  - dang 4y ago
    You can't post nationalistic slurs to HN, regardless of which group you have a problem with. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on.

odiroot 4y ago

Yep, this smells of "scheiß egal".

ldoughty 4y ago

Not just German big-business.... American big businesses are the same way... If you want to use Apple, Google, or Facebook services for your business / as part of your business, they often treat you the same way.... "Do what we say, or you're presence here will be terminated"

dang 4y ago

Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32470266 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32470266.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
daneel_w 4y ago
I had no such intention with my post. This feels like an offensive accusation.
- dang 4y ago
  Oh I certainly believe you that you had no such intention, but we have to go by effects, not intent. I've written about this many times, so if you or anyone want further explanation, you can find it at these links: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=disambiguate%20burden%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=troll%20effects%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... In the case of your comment, pejorative generalizations about national groups counts as nationalistic flamebait (that is, it has the effect, in the general case, of provoking nationalistic flamewar) whether you intended that or not.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rowanG077 4y ago

Google is actually German confirmed.