5 ms·

Consoles seem like a dumb idea to me. They were great when split screen was the main form of multiplayer. Now multiplayer has largely moved online. Finding loca

Consoles seem like a dumb idea to me. They were great when split screen was the main form of multiplayer. Now multiplayer has largely moved online. Finding local co-op / competitive games is kind of hard, and of the few that still come out, few of them are console specific. If you're colocated with your friends, playing together may not be possible unless you want to bring along another console and hook it up to another tv. The switch being an outlier on multiple points here. Laptops are fine enough to bring along though and laptops are capable of playing pretty much everything. Paying for the ability to play online sucks. Controllers are now largely PC compatible. Lots of games are moving off physical media. Prices tend to be better for PC games. Media is transferable to a new PC. Modding. Updates are quicker. People like to talk about how consoles are simpler but... I think that's stupid. People got caught up in dumb PC master race memes about hardware nerds getting the absolute best graphics performance possible and missed the fact that its not that hard to make a competent pc that will do just fine for a very long time for comparable prices to a console. And, it's a computer!

coldpie 4y ago
I turn on my console and it plays games. I'm not messing around with maintaining yet another PC and all those headaches.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Why can't you turn on your pc and play games?
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I think there was a big difference between the care and feeding of a Windows system and a console. Not that I really use a Windows machine at this point, but my sense is that there's not a big gap these days.
  - coldpie 4y ago
    Driver updates. OS updates. Driver update broke HDMI. OS update broke my controller config. Steam update broke my controller config. Bluetooth controller randomly unpairs every other week. Game picks the wrong sound device so now it's coming out of the TV instead of my wireless headphones. Some game doesn't work with gamepad so I guess I need a wireless kb/m now, too. Oop game lost focus because of a Chrome update dialog, guess I need to alt-tab back into it, shit the keyboard batteries are dead... PC gaming sucks.
    - izzydata 4y ago
      There is no fundamental reason why a PC can't be made to be like a console due to the fact that consoles are just PCs. It's pretty darn simple already, but Microsoft could take it one step further by having some kind of boot into gaming mode that does everything for you.
      - lttlrck 4y ago
        That'd be great but they would still have all the driver luggage.
    - amcoastal 4y ago
    - zimpenfish 4y ago
      > Oop game lost focus because of a Chrome update dialog This is particularly irksome on the Macbook when playing Minecraft because you can't just CMD-Tab back in (because Mojang's UI competence is on par with their optimisation competence) - you have to click out of the not-visible Minecraft and then click on it in the dock. (CMD-Tab only works when it's not fullscreen.)
    - dmonitor 4y ago
      Consoles need updates too. Never had a driver update break HDMI, and I can't see how that is a thing in current year. Steam fixed controllers with their controller API. Changing the sound device is two button clicks. Consoles have system updates that remove features. Consoles add advertisements to the home screen. They can only play games approved by the hardware manufacturer, from their store, and pay their 30% "subsidize our hardware" tax. You have to pay $60/yr to use your own internet. You have to use their online chat system. You can't host private servers. You can't easily share your screen or have a second display for social features. You have to use a controller for all games, and if a game doesn't support controllers it just never gets ported. You also can't install mods, do any serious creative work, or emulate games from competitor's systems. Console gaming sucks
  - ericmay 4y ago
    For me it's because then I have to go buy and assemble a PC + another monitor and buy another desk and a set of peripherals. Whereas an Xbox Series X I just plug in to my TV and it works great, especially with GamePass, and it's way cheaper.
  - sanedigital 4y ago
    I'm a working father. I get maybe 20-30 minutes a month where I can play games. Previously, I had a PC that never got turned on except for gaming. When I would sit down to play, I would have to wade through ~30 minutes of OS updates, Steam updates, and then game updates. Every. Single. Time. I got my son a PS5 for Christmas last year. I was able to play and beat Elden Ring over the course of a few months because I could sit down, open the game within ~30 seconds, and then go back to my responsibilities. PCs are great, but they'll never compete with the effortless convenience of consoles.
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      > I get maybe 20-30 minutes a month where I can play games. > I was able to play and beat Elden Ring over the course of a few months I congratulate you on beating Elden Ring over a few 20-30 minute sessions. > Previously, I had a PC that never got turned on except for gaming. When I would sit down to play, I would have to wade through ~30 minutes of OS updates, Steam updates, and then game updates. Every. Single. Time. Idk man. To me this sounds like nonsense. I've got a big desktop machine I turn on once every couple of months to check out VR stuff and this doesn't resonate with me at all. OS updates, Steam Updates, and Game updates are very negligible to me. 30 minutes sounds very wrong.
      - ChoGGi 4y ago
        30m sounds about right to me (with crappy internet).
        zimpenfish 4y ago
        I have good internet and Steam updating on Windows 10 is always 10+ minutes for me (during which time the rest of the machine is mildly unresponsive.)
    - yourusername 4y ago
      You could get the same experience by just setting up a power schedule on your PC so it turns on to update the OS and Steam library once in a while. If your son wasn't using that PS5 you would have the exact same experience there with first being forced to sit through updates for both the OS and games before you could get into it.
  - _gabe_ 4y ago
    I don't know about OP, but I've got a pretty powerful PC, and Windows loves to suck up unnecessary resources. The Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe) routinely uses 1 whole GB out of my 8 GB of VRAM. That's not cool. So I have to go through a bunch of settings windows then tell windows to turn off all of it's hardware accelerated graphics rendering features for the OS to get dwm.exe to consume a more reasonable (I guess...) 250 MB of my VRAM. Not only that, but windows anti-virus scanner runs all the time and routinely consumes about 20% of my CPU for no reason. I have yet to find a way to turn that off for a specified time period. Consoles are built for games, so you can safely assume they're not going to consume unnecessary resources and tank your games performance. Games are (usually) built for consoles, so you can safely assume the game will be able to utilize the hardware much more efficiently than your PC that it has no clue about all the hardware/system specs. That's just a couple reasons I can think of for not being able to just play a game on your PC, and I'm sure other people have more examples.
  - green-eclipse 4y ago
    Surely a person with the username "spywaregorilla" can understand the annoying overhead involved in owning and running a Microsoft Windows PC.
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BonziBuddy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BonziBuddy I really don't think there's any overhead with running a windows PC...
  - haunter 4y ago
    Not sure why are getting dowvoted. Honestly every MS thread here on HN is a shit show. Maybe I live in a fairy land but I never ever had a problem. Cold boot Windows 10 + launching any game and I'm in the main menu in 50s (and I only have an i7-7700 + GTX 1070). Have a PS5 right next to me and I can't start games faster at all. The claims here in the comments are especially baffling when I assume HN is a very technically capable audience. Maybe I was wrong.
    - _gabe_ 4y ago
      > The claims here in the comments are especially baffling when I assume HN is a very technically capable audience. It seems like all the comments are from technically competent people. They seem to indicate that they know exactly what causes the issues and they know how to solve them. Just because you're technically capable doesn't mean you want to deal with Windows BS everytime you want to game, and this is coming from a primarily MS centered developer. I don't own any apple products and I only have Linux installed on a laptop I never use anymore. My desktop and work laptop are Windows. And windows still annoys me to no end when it sucks unnecessary resources, forces updates, makes connecting any Bluetooth devices a major PITA, can screw up your performance if you installed the wrong drivers, and everything else the other comments mentioned.
      - haunter 4y ago
        >doesn't mean you want to deal with Windows BS everytime you want to game See this is what I don't get maybe that's where I'm an exception and in the extreme minority. But everytime? Maybe you need 30-40 mins to setup a Windows 10 PC "properly" to your taste but after that you barely need to touch anything and it will just work. If anything I do agree that Windows has _too many options_ and some of them are overlapping with each other + confusing the user. See the Windows 10 System Settings window when the classic (Win 7) Control Panel also exist AND on top of that you can override all of them with the Group Policy Editor (which imo the best way to handle the system)
    - MikusR 4y ago
      That's because they are using macbooks. And only turn their couple year old PC once a year to play a game.
  - zimpenfish 4y ago
    From turning on my PC to being able to play is 1) 2 minutes to get to a Windows login; 2) 1-3 minutes to get to a desktop; 3) 10-20 minutes whilst {Steam updates, GOG updates, Oculus starts, GeForce desktop deigns to launch, etc.} making everything else unresponsive; 4) 2-5 minutes for a game to start - assuming it does, I think I'm currently running 50-50 on Binding of Isaac launching correctly vs just hanging. Minecraft is even worse - starting ManyMC is under a minute (good) but then launching (a medium-ly modded) Minecraft is sometimes 15 minutes of wait. In contrast, the same version with the same mods on my M1 Macbook Pro is under a minute (including starting the launcher.)
    - MikusR 4y ago
      Even on hdd it doesn't take 5 minutes to get to desktop.
      - zimpenfish 4y ago
        > Even on hdd it doesn't take 5 minutes to get to desktop. FOR YOU. For me, it can (and I am on hdd.) Don't presume that your experience is the experience of everyone - there's literally no way that can be true.
        MikusR 4y ago
        That means that something is wrong with your setup. Long startup times can be caused by badblocks in waiting on your hdd.
        zimpenfish 4y ago
        > Long startup times can be caused by badblocks Windows reports (as of yesterday afternoon) no problems with any of my drives. > That means that something is wrong with your setup. Sure, possibly, but I installed Windows 10 on a clean drive in a new PC a couple of years back and if that's "setup wrong", how the hell is anyone supposed to get it right?
- capableweb 4y ago
  Valve is underway to change this common misconception. I got a Steam Deck last month and can't remember the last time I had this fluid experience with gaming, especially since I can bring it anywhere (in the house, and elsewhere). And the Steam Deck is a PC with embedded controllers (that by default runs Linux as it's main OS). Last night I hooked it up to my monitor, keyboard and mouse, downloaded Rust and used it for programming as well, without issues. I have a gaming PC, a couple of consoles, both stationary and handheld but the Steam Deck quickly became the main device for gaming for me.
  - coldpie 4y ago
    Ohh I know all about the Steam Deck ;) It's a promising device and I've got high hopes for it. I haven't tried hooking mine up to a TV in a long while, I wonder if that's working well yet. It's my device for playing Guilty Gear Strive, but I prefer to play on a TV, so I haven't actually been using it much.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      The times I've used it with a TV or monitor it worked fine (but haven't used it extensively, just a couple of times), having more issues with latency when connecting Xbox controller via Bluetooth.
dageshi 4y ago
That was true pre this current generation of consoles. It was damned hard to get a PC comparable to a PS5 or Xbox SX for the past 2-3 years, because the hardware in those consoles is very capable and graphics cards were unobtainium at MSRP. Even now, I think getting PC hardware for the same retail costs as the consoles would be tough.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  I don't buy it. These things have been way more accessible than people thought. Building your own PC has been stupidly expensive due the crypto crunch. Buying a midrange prebuilt has been fine. Play a console for several years and you'll also see several hundred dollars disappear to online subscriptions and controllers and what not.
  - behnamoh 4y ago
    Agreed. Plus you can upgrade the PC over the years, but not the console.
  - dageshi 4y ago
    I don't believe you can get a "mid-range" prebuilt for $500 that compares to one of the consoles in raw horse power. I don't think you could do it now, let alone over the past 2 years. Certainly at launch of those consoles, there was no chance.
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      A $500 console that requires $60/year to play online over a short 5 year lifespan costs $800. The premium service on PS5 costs $120/year if that's what you want. Now here's the thing. I don't care about "horse power". It really does not matter. This time I get to say, "I just want to play". And that's what I do. I don't think about the graphics, and they're fine. Tbh, on my $800 black friday from four years ago RTX 2080 LAPTOP, that's meant max graphics settings + raytracing on every title I've tried. But I also wouldn't care if I needed to set them to Low. Being able to run a game on lower graphical settings if it's a bit above your paygrade is a lot better than not being able to run it at all.
danhor 4y ago
It's much simpler. You turn on the console and go to the game you want, opening it. There might be an update, but nothing close to the annoyance of using a windows PC and custom launchers (linux is slightly better in this regard, but requires a lot more fiddling to get started & compatability). There are no launchers, no multiple stores, just a single, integrated UI that works great on a big screen with a controller. There are even physical media, if one so desires, and even better, most of it works offline (after getting the day one patch with fixes and blah-blah-blah). There are efforts to replicate that experience on a PC (mostly SteamOS) but they still have a lot of issues. I like my Deck and have used other consoles way less after getting it, but it's not for everyone. It still requires fiddling to get "all the current games" and a lot of launchers don't work when offline without some extra care [1]. Regularly launchers want the password again, which is horrible to type in with gamepad-like controls. You also need to configure the games to work properly. I don't want to configure the game so it looks alright at 30/40/60 fps, I want it to be done already. It's like people preferring iOS for having less options, choices and being simpler in comparison to Android, but way more extreme. [1]: How can it be so bad? Almost nothing with a launcher works right away, especially since there are separate launcher installations per game that need to be started regularly and have their own offline-mode settings
- ziddoap 4y ago
  >There might be an update, but nothing close to the annoyance of using a windows PC I generally can just come home, turn on my PC, and double-click the shortcut for my game. I have hundreds of games in my Steam library and maybe 4 have a custom launcher, which I agree can be a bit annoying but in 90% of cases just means I am clicking 2-3 more times before the game starts (adding ~10 seconds, maybe). Regarding multiple stores... What's that matter? Once I buy the game, I'm clicking the icon or start menu entry. Multiple stores does not matter at all once the game is purchased. From the purchasing side, I'm fine with looking on GOG first and then heading to Steam if the game I want isn't on GOG -- not really seen as an annoyance for me. To each their own, but I feel like your trying to make it out to be much more annoying than it actually is.
  - jamespo 4y ago
azalemeth 4y ago
This is why I like Nintendo's hardware – it tends to be different, in a creative and interesting way, rather than just being "cheaper than a gaming PC in upfront cost but more rent-seeking and DRM'd down to the nines". The 3DS – love it or loathe it – was different. The Wii, awfully-named and somewhat unfortunately DOA Wii-U, and the Switch were generationally different changed the direction (IMO) of the whole industry. The charm of a console lies in the works that can be created with it that cannot easily be created on the diaspora of PCs out in the wild.
- ghaff 4y ago
  I've never been a big gamer but I was really into the Wii (mostly for sports-related titles) for a time. Pretty sure I used it a lot more than my Xbox 360.
  - asdajksah2123 4y ago
    The Wii was fun when it first came out. Unfortunately it seemed that all the games that came subsequently focused on the gimmicky nature of the Wii. Or maybe it was just a fad. Either way, got a lot more value from the Wii for the year or so I used it religiously than the many years I've had my XBone.
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      Imo, nintendo suffers this curse where they make great hardware, but then for reasons unclear, nobody except Nintendo is able to leverage it. I'm willing to believe it's nintendo's fault in sharing dev resources but idk. The wii was great. Wii sports was amazing. The Wii U was also really awesome and the wii sports equivalent, nintendo land, was really good. the asymmetric screens for multiplayer were super fun. Nobody else used it really.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        I think both you and the parent probably hit on the main points. I think it was something of a fad and after the novelty wore off, some of the limitations became more apparent over time. And, while I played a few games quite a bit (Wii Sports, a couple of different tennis games, snowboarding) over probably about a year, the only other game I played through was World of Goo and it would probably have been just as good on my PC. Certainly after the original sports games, nothing new came along from either Nintendo or a third party that really grabbed my attention. I set it back up at one point but it never grabbed me again.
causi 4y ago
If you're gaming in a living room there's something to be said for consoles just working. Steam's controller support seems to have gotten worse and worse over the years. I keep a wireless mini keyboard/touchpad on my end table just because Big Picture Mode is a load of suck. PC goes to sleep, controller never comes back. Controller goes to sleep without a game running, never comes back without closing Steam and opening it again. I don't understand how one PC game can be using it fine, then when you close that game and open another it won't pick up the controller even though it worked fine yesterday. With the console you just push the button and it turns on and your games are right there.
goosedragons 4y ago
PCs are still way more expensive. Especially lately. Compare what you can get for $500. You just can't get a PS5 or Xbox Series X level system for that much. It will barely cover a similar level GPU and then you still need to add all the other crap. And they are simpler and just straight up better to use on TVs. You're never forced back into an interface designed to be viewed 20" away to log into some launcher or install some crap. You know the game is just gonna work with your controller and you don't have to tweak settings or diddle with Steam to make it work. And it also has nice integrated things like a Blu-ray app and a Netflix app with a sensible TV interface and 4K playback. Prices aren't even really better on PC. I find it's either the same or like a dollar or two off. Plus you can just suspend the game and do something else and come back to it reliably. I've never found that to be the case with PC gaming except on the Steam Deck and that's one of favorite features. It actually makes PC gaming viable for me now.
- q-big 4y ago
  > PCs are still way more expensive. Especially lately. Compare what you can get for $500. You just can't get a PS5 or Xbox Series X level system for that much. On the other hand: currently, you can hardly get a PS5 or Xbox Series X for this price (because of chip shortages and scalpers). ;-)
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    And until super recently because of that same shortage and scalpers you could barely find a decent GPU for MSRP. ;-)
  - raydev 4y ago
    I think the Series X is consistently in stock in Canada now. People who want the PS5 still need to be vigilant and track store inventories.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  A PS5 costs $500 for an offline unit. Play your PS5 online for a year and you've just racked up $60-$120 extra. Play it online for 5 years and you've paid $300-$600 extra.
anonymousab 4y ago
A PS5 or XSX costs noticeably less than a mid-high GPU and offers effectively the same performance for most people. And is almost literally plug and play - whereas troubleshooting driver versions and weird developer implementation details (e.g. shader recompilation stutters in dx12 games) is still a problem these days! The flexibility and customizability and open nature of PCs is a double edged sword.
ectospheno 4y ago
I’m almost 50 and my kids are over 18. I don’t multiplayer game. I can tell you why I exclusively console game and don’t build pcs anymore: time. I do enough computer work at work. When I get home I want to sit in my recliner and play games. I don’t want to get the thing to work. I never want to fix it. I never want to find an unofficial patch. I just want to play some games. Every second I spend on the hobby not doing the hobby is wasted.

coldpie 4y ago

I turn on my console and it plays games. I'm not messing around with maintaining yet another PC and all those headaches.

spywaregorilla 4y ago
Why can't you turn on your pc and play games?
- ghaff 4y ago
  I think there was a big difference between the care and feeding of a Windows system and a console. Not that I really use a Windows machine at this point, but my sense is that there's not a big gap these days.
- coldpie 4y ago
  Driver updates. OS updates. Driver update broke HDMI. OS update broke my controller config. Steam update broke my controller config. Bluetooth controller randomly unpairs every other week. Game picks the wrong sound device so now it's coming out of the TV instead of my wireless headphones. Some game doesn't work with gamepad so I guess I need a wireless kb/m now, too. Oop game lost focus because of a Chrome update dialog, guess I need to alt-tab back into it, shit the keyboard batteries are dead... PC gaming sucks.
  - izzydata 4y ago
    There is no fundamental reason why a PC can't be made to be like a console due to the fact that consoles are just PCs. It's pretty darn simple already, but Microsoft could take it one step further by having some kind of boot into gaming mode that does everything for you.
    - lttlrck 4y ago
      That'd be great but they would still have all the driver luggage.
  - amcoastal 4y ago
  - zimpenfish 4y ago
    > Oop game lost focus because of a Chrome update dialog This is particularly irksome on the Macbook when playing Minecraft because you can't just CMD-Tab back in (because Mojang's UI competence is on par with their optimisation competence) - you have to click out of the not-visible Minecraft and then click on it in the dock. (CMD-Tab only works when it's not fullscreen.)
  - dmonitor 4y ago
    Consoles need updates too. Never had a driver update break HDMI, and I can't see how that is a thing in current year. Steam fixed controllers with their controller API. Changing the sound device is two button clicks. Consoles have system updates that remove features. Consoles add advertisements to the home screen. They can only play games approved by the hardware manufacturer, from their store, and pay their 30% "subsidize our hardware" tax. You have to pay $60/yr to use your own internet. You have to use their online chat system. You can't host private servers. You can't easily share your screen or have a second display for social features. You have to use a controller for all games, and if a game doesn't support controllers it just never gets ported. You also can't install mods, do any serious creative work, or emulate games from competitor's systems. Console gaming sucks
- ericmay 4y ago
  For me it's because then I have to go buy and assemble a PC + another monitor and buy another desk and a set of peripherals. Whereas an Xbox Series X I just plug in to my TV and it works great, especially with GamePass, and it's way cheaper.
- sanedigital 4y ago
  I'm a working father. I get maybe 20-30 minutes a month where I can play games. Previously, I had a PC that never got turned on except for gaming. When I would sit down to play, I would have to wade through ~30 minutes of OS updates, Steam updates, and then game updates. Every. Single. Time. I got my son a PS5 for Christmas last year. I was able to play and beat Elden Ring over the course of a few months because I could sit down, open the game within ~30 seconds, and then go back to my responsibilities. PCs are great, but they'll never compete with the effortless convenience of consoles.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    > I get maybe 20-30 minutes a month where I can play games. > I was able to play and beat Elden Ring over the course of a few months I congratulate you on beating Elden Ring over a few 20-30 minute sessions. > Previously, I had a PC that never got turned on except for gaming. When I would sit down to play, I would have to wade through ~30 minutes of OS updates, Steam updates, and then game updates. Every. Single. Time. Idk man. To me this sounds like nonsense. I've got a big desktop machine I turn on once every couple of months to check out VR stuff and this doesn't resonate with me at all. OS updates, Steam Updates, and Game updates are very negligible to me. 30 minutes sounds very wrong.
    - ChoGGi 4y ago
      30m sounds about right to me (with crappy internet).
      - zimpenfish 4y ago
        I have good internet and Steam updating on Windows 10 is always 10+ minutes for me (during which time the rest of the machine is mildly unresponsive.)
  - yourusername 4y ago
    You could get the same experience by just setting up a power schedule on your PC so it turns on to update the OS and Steam library once in a while. If your son wasn't using that PS5 you would have the exact same experience there with first being forced to sit through updates for both the OS and games before you could get into it.
- _gabe_ 4y ago
  I don't know about OP, but I've got a pretty powerful PC, and Windows loves to suck up unnecessary resources. The Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe) routinely uses 1 whole GB out of my 8 GB of VRAM. That's not cool. So I have to go through a bunch of settings windows then tell windows to turn off all of it's hardware accelerated graphics rendering features for the OS to get dwm.exe to consume a more reasonable (I guess...) 250 MB of my VRAM. Not only that, but windows anti-virus scanner runs all the time and routinely consumes about 20% of my CPU for no reason. I have yet to find a way to turn that off for a specified time period. Consoles are built for games, so you can safely assume they're not going to consume unnecessary resources and tank your games performance. Games are (usually) built for consoles, so you can safely assume the game will be able to utilize the hardware much more efficiently than your PC that it has no clue about all the hardware/system specs. That's just a couple reasons I can think of for not being able to just play a game on your PC, and I'm sure other people have more examples.
- green-eclipse 4y ago
  Surely a person with the username "spywaregorilla" can understand the annoying overhead involved in owning and running a Microsoft Windows PC.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BonziBuddy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BonziBuddy I really don't think there's any overhead with running a windows PC...
- haunter 4y ago
  Not sure why are getting dowvoted. Honestly every MS thread here on HN is a shit show. Maybe I live in a fairy land but I never ever had a problem. Cold boot Windows 10 + launching any game and I'm in the main menu in 50s (and I only have an i7-7700 + GTX 1070). Have a PS5 right next to me and I can't start games faster at all. The claims here in the comments are especially baffling when I assume HN is a very technically capable audience. Maybe I was wrong.
  - _gabe_ 4y ago
    > The claims here in the comments are especially baffling when I assume HN is a very technically capable audience. It seems like all the comments are from technically competent people. They seem to indicate that they know exactly what causes the issues and they know how to solve them. Just because you're technically capable doesn't mean you want to deal with Windows BS everytime you want to game, and this is coming from a primarily MS centered developer. I don't own any apple products and I only have Linux installed on a laptop I never use anymore. My desktop and work laptop are Windows. And windows still annoys me to no end when it sucks unnecessary resources, forces updates, makes connecting any Bluetooth devices a major PITA, can screw up your performance if you installed the wrong drivers, and everything else the other comments mentioned.
    - haunter 4y ago
      >doesn't mean you want to deal with Windows BS everytime you want to game See this is what I don't get maybe that's where I'm an exception and in the extreme minority. But everytime? Maybe you need 30-40 mins to setup a Windows 10 PC "properly" to your taste but after that you barely need to touch anything and it will just work. If anything I do agree that Windows has _too many options_ and some of them are overlapping with each other + confusing the user. See the Windows 10 System Settings window when the classic (Win 7) Control Panel also exist AND on top of that you can override all of them with the Group Policy Editor (which imo the best way to handle the system)
  - MikusR 4y ago
    That's because they are using macbooks. And only turn their couple year old PC once a year to play a game.
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  From turning on my PC to being able to play is 1) 2 minutes to get to a Windows login; 2) 1-3 minutes to get to a desktop; 3) 10-20 minutes whilst {Steam updates, GOG updates, Oculus starts, GeForce desktop deigns to launch, etc.} making everything else unresponsive; 4) 2-5 minutes for a game to start - assuming it does, I think I'm currently running 50-50 on Binding of Isaac launching correctly vs just hanging. Minecraft is even worse - starting ManyMC is under a minute (good) but then launching (a medium-ly modded) Minecraft is sometimes 15 minutes of wait. In contrast, the same version with the same mods on my M1 Macbook Pro is under a minute (including starting the launcher.)
  - MikusR 4y ago
    Even on hdd it doesn't take 5 minutes to get to desktop.
    - zimpenfish 4y ago
      > Even on hdd it doesn't take 5 minutes to get to desktop. FOR YOU. For me, it can (and I am on hdd.) Don't presume that your experience is the experience of everyone - there's literally no way that can be true.
      - MikusR 4y ago
        That means that something is wrong with your setup. Long startup times can be caused by badblocks in waiting on your hdd.
        zimpenfish 4y ago
        > Long startup times can be caused by badblocks Windows reports (as of yesterday afternoon) no problems with any of my drives. > That means that something is wrong with your setup. Sure, possibly, but I installed Windows 10 on a clean drive in a new PC a couple of years back and if that's "setup wrong", how the hell is anyone supposed to get it right?
capableweb 4y ago
Valve is underway to change this common misconception. I got a Steam Deck last month and can't remember the last time I had this fluid experience with gaming, especially since I can bring it anywhere (in the house, and elsewhere). And the Steam Deck is a PC with embedded controllers (that by default runs Linux as it's main OS). Last night I hooked it up to my monitor, keyboard and mouse, downloaded Rust and used it for programming as well, without issues. I have a gaming PC, a couple of consoles, both stationary and handheld but the Steam Deck quickly became the main device for gaming for me.
- coldpie 4y ago
  Ohh I know all about the Steam Deck ;) It's a promising device and I've got high hopes for it. I haven't tried hooking mine up to a TV in a long while, I wonder if that's working well yet. It's my device for playing Guilty Gear Strive, but I prefer to play on a TV, so I haven't actually been using it much.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    The times I've used it with a TV or monitor it worked fine (but haven't used it extensively, just a couple of times), having more issues with latency when connecting Xbox controller via Bluetooth.

dageshi 4y ago

That was true pre this current generation of consoles. It was damned hard to get a PC comparable to a PS5 or Xbox SX for the past 2-3 years, because the hardware in those consoles is very capable and graphics cards were unobtainium at MSRP. Even now, I think getting PC hardware for the same retail costs as the consoles would be tough.

spywaregorilla 4y ago
I don't buy it. These things have been way more accessible than people thought. Building your own PC has been stupidly expensive due the crypto crunch. Buying a midrange prebuilt has been fine. Play a console for several years and you'll also see several hundred dollars disappear to online subscriptions and controllers and what not.
- behnamoh 4y ago
  Agreed. Plus you can upgrade the PC over the years, but not the console.
- dageshi 4y ago
  I don't believe you can get a "mid-range" prebuilt for $500 that compares to one of the consoles in raw horse power. I don't think you could do it now, let alone over the past 2 years. Certainly at launch of those consoles, there was no chance.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    A $500 console that requires $60/year to play online over a short 5 year lifespan costs $800. The premium service on PS5 costs $120/year if that's what you want. Now here's the thing. I don't care about "horse power". It really does not matter. This time I get to say, "I just want to play". And that's what I do. I don't think about the graphics, and they're fine. Tbh, on my $800 black friday from four years ago RTX 2080 LAPTOP, that's meant max graphics settings + raytracing on every title I've tried. But I also wouldn't care if I needed to set them to Low. Being able to run a game on lower graphical settings if it's a bit above your paygrade is a lot better than not being able to run it at all.

danhor 4y ago

It's much simpler. You turn on the console and go to the game you want, opening it. There might be an update, but nothing close to the annoyance of using a windows PC and custom launchers (linux is slightly better in this regard, but requires a lot more fiddling to get started & compatability). There are no launchers, no multiple stores, just a single, integrated UI that works great on a big screen with a controller. There are even physical media, if one so desires, and even better, most of it works offline (after getting the day one patch with fixes and blah-blah-blah). There are efforts to replicate that experience on a PC (mostly SteamOS) but they still have a lot of issues. I like my Deck and have used other consoles way less after getting it, but it's not for everyone. It still requires fiddling to get "all the current games" and a lot of launchers don't work when offline without some extra care [1]. Regularly launchers want the password again, which is horrible to type in with gamepad-like controls. You also need to configure the games to work properly. I don't want to configure the game so it looks alright at 30/40/60 fps, I want it to be done already. It's like people preferring iOS for having less options, choices and being simpler in comparison to Android, but way more extreme. [1]: How can it be so bad? Almost nothing with a launcher works right away, especially since there are separate launcher installations per game that need to be started regularly and have their own offline-mode settings

ziddoap 4y ago
>There might be an update, but nothing close to the annoyance of using a windows PC I generally can just come home, turn on my PC, and double-click the shortcut for my game. I have hundreds of games in my Steam library and maybe 4 have a custom launcher, which I agree can be a bit annoying but in 90% of cases just means I am clicking 2-3 more times before the game starts (adding ~10 seconds, maybe). Regarding multiple stores... What's that matter? Once I buy the game, I'm clicking the icon or start menu entry. Multiple stores does not matter at all once the game is purchased. From the purchasing side, I'm fine with looking on GOG first and then heading to Steam if the game I want isn't on GOG -- not really seen as an annoyance for me. To each their own, but I feel like your trying to make it out to be much more annoying than it actually is.
- jamespo 4y ago

azalemeth 4y ago

This is why I like Nintendo's hardware – it tends to be different, in a creative and interesting way, rather than just being "cheaper than a gaming PC in upfront cost but more rent-seeking and DRM'd down to the nines". The 3DS – love it or loathe it – was different. The Wii, awfully-named and somewhat unfortunately DOA Wii-U, and the Switch were generationally different changed the direction (IMO) of the whole industry. The charm of a console lies in the works that can be created with it that cannot easily be created on the diaspora of PCs out in the wild.

ghaff 4y ago
I've never been a big gamer but I was really into the Wii (mostly for sports-related titles) for a time. Pretty sure I used it a lot more than my Xbox 360.
- asdajksah2123 4y ago
  The Wii was fun when it first came out. Unfortunately it seemed that all the games that came subsequently focused on the gimmicky nature of the Wii. Or maybe it was just a fad. Either way, got a lot more value from the Wii for the year or so I used it religiously than the many years I've had my XBone.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    Imo, nintendo suffers this curse where they make great hardware, but then for reasons unclear, nobody except Nintendo is able to leverage it. I'm willing to believe it's nintendo's fault in sharing dev resources but idk. The wii was great. Wii sports was amazing. The Wii U was also really awesome and the wii sports equivalent, nintendo land, was really good. the asymmetric screens for multiplayer were super fun. Nobody else used it really.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      I think both you and the parent probably hit on the main points. I think it was something of a fad and after the novelty wore off, some of the limitations became more apparent over time. And, while I played a few games quite a bit (Wii Sports, a couple of different tennis games, snowboarding) over probably about a year, the only other game I played through was World of Goo and it would probably have been just as good on my PC. Certainly after the original sports games, nothing new came along from either Nintendo or a third party that really grabbed my attention. I set it back up at one point but it never grabbed me again.

causi 4y ago

If you're gaming in a living room there's something to be said for consoles just working. Steam's controller support seems to have gotten worse and worse over the years. I keep a wireless mini keyboard/touchpad on my end table just because Big Picture Mode is a load of suck. PC goes to sleep, controller never comes back. Controller goes to sleep without a game running, never comes back without closing Steam and opening it again. I don't understand how one PC game can be using it fine, then when you close that game and open another it won't pick up the controller even though it worked fine yesterday. With the console you just push the button and it turns on and your games are right there.

goosedragons 4y ago

PCs are still way more expensive. Especially lately. Compare what you can get for $500. You just can't get a PS5 or Xbox Series X level system for that much. It will barely cover a similar level GPU and then you still need to add all the other crap. And they are simpler and just straight up better to use on TVs. You're never forced back into an interface designed to be viewed 20" away to log into some launcher or install some crap. You know the game is just gonna work with your controller and you don't have to tweak settings or diddle with Steam to make it work. And it also has nice integrated things like a Blu-ray app and a Netflix app with a sensible TV interface and 4K playback. Prices aren't even really better on PC. I find it's either the same or like a dollar or two off. Plus you can just suspend the game and do something else and come back to it reliably. I've never found that to be the case with PC gaming except on the Steam Deck and that's one of favorite features. It actually makes PC gaming viable for me now.

q-big 4y ago
> PCs are still way more expensive. Especially lately. Compare what you can get for $500. You just can't get a PS5 or Xbox Series X level system for that much. On the other hand: currently, you can hardly get a PS5 or Xbox Series X for this price (because of chip shortages and scalpers). ;-)
- goosedragons 4y ago
  And until super recently because of that same shortage and scalpers you could barely find a decent GPU for MSRP. ;-)
- raydev 4y ago
  I think the Series X is consistently in stock in Canada now. People who want the PS5 still need to be vigilant and track store inventories.
spywaregorilla 4y ago
A PS5 costs $500 for an offline unit. Play your PS5 online for a year and you've just racked up $60-$120 extra. Play it online for 5 years and you've paid $300-$600 extra.

anonymousab 4y ago

A PS5 or XSX costs noticeably less than a mid-high GPU and offers effectively the same performance for most people. And is almost literally plug and play - whereas troubleshooting driver versions and weird developer implementation details (e.g. shader recompilation stutters in dx12 games) is still a problem these days! The flexibility and customizability and open nature of PCs is a double edged sword.

ectospheno 4y ago

I’m almost 50 and my kids are over 18. I don’t multiplayer game. I can tell you why I exclusively console game and don’t build pcs anymore: time. I do enough computer work at work. When I get home I want to sit in my recliner and play games. I don’t want to get the thing to work. I never want to fix it. I never want to find an unofficial patch. I just want to play some games. Every second I spend on the hobby not doing the hobby is wasted.