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towards those getting laid.. I know it's stupid, but I think in the past part of it arose from just knowing that they were doing it, and I as a geek was not go

towards those getting laid.. I know it's stupid, but I think in the past part of it arose from just knowing that they were doing it, and I as a geek was not going to get it. I strongly thought in the past that because I was nerdy, I was automatically despised by girls. I know that's not completely true now, but there is a little bit of truth to it. But to reiterate, I think what gave me this feeling, was thinking that girls hated me coz I was a nerd, etc.

lukifer 15y ago
I remember that feeling well. Took years to shake even after the first time. Without writing a novel on the subject, it helps to take a perspective lifted from evolutionary biology, and embrace your inner beast. It's possible to be too much of a nice guy.
- winter_blue 15y ago
  I don't think that's the right way to go. I think it's better to _change_ yourself in such a way you are more comfortable in talking/interacting with women. AND most importantly to _stop_ thinking they'll hate you just coz your a nerd. Because there's an interesting effect in play here (this applies to both men/women): if you think other people don't like you, then the way you act towards will possibly cause that to be reality. On the other hand if you actually take an interest in others and try to get to know them, even the ones who were initially repulsed by you will have change of mind.
  - davidjohnstone 15y ago
    I've been reading a book called "Falling in love: Why we choose the lovers we do". It's a fascinating book, and it mentions how studies have been done to show that when people believe that other people like them, they behave in a way that actually makes other people like them. And, as the old saying goes (maybe it's not old, but I've seen it many times), the best way to be loved by people is to love people.
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  >It's possible to be too much of a nice guy. This is a classic nerd's reductionist view of interpersonal interaction. You are not either a nice guy or a bad boy. Your personality has many more degrees of freedom than this. If it doesn't, then that may in fact be your problem.
- itmag 15y ago
  It's good to be nice if you genuinely want to be nice. If you are doing it because you are living out a "covert contract", then people can smell that and it's not attractive. Have a look-see at this: http://evolutionmale.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/nice-guys-arent-really-nice/ http://evolutionmale.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/nice-guys-aren... (Not pointed at lukifer in particular, I'm sure he knows this already).
davidhansen 15y ago
I don't know how old you are, but be prepared to battle this for much of your life. At 32, I would have hoped to excise the latent misogyny and distrust of former jocks that my adolescent experiences burned into me, but it has not abated. I expect this to last a lifetime, and my only defense is to continue working on discarding cached thoughts( per the LessWrong folks )whenever they are recognized. The real kicker is that if you have a successful startup exit, it gets much worse. My own cynicism grew enormously after witnessing the dramatic change that money brought into women's attitude toward me. The day you realize a woman is sleeping with you merely as a chore to gain access to resources - well, let's just say that's not a very good day.
- kahawe 15y ago
  I am sorry for what you had to go through, I can relate in a way. I will recommend the same I recommended to winter_blue: consider (behavior) therapy and work through whatever pain and/or toxic shame might be left in you from the past. And on gold-digging women: they should be sufficiently easy to spot and just decide whether the sleeping-with-you and her presence is worth it to you or not. There are also great girls out there who are having just as much a hard time with some dumb male partner who would be happy to be with someone honest and hard working. Don't give up and more importantly, work through whatever pains you from the past.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    And on gold-digging women: they should be sufficiently easy to spot... I don't think so. In general, women are masters of deception (by male geek standards) and you shouldn't expect to beat them at their own game. In my experience, the only reliable way to spot a golddigger is to reveal that you are broke and have no desire to change this.
    - kahawe 15y ago
      Oh heavens no, I don't even aspire to match half of the social and manipulative skills women seem to be so born with. One thing I think I have figured out is weighing actions vs. words. And the real gold-diggers usually reveal themselves rather quickly because it is only efficient for them to get things to "being paid" mode as soon as possible. But it will take (lots of) reflective thinking to see it for what it is, that is true.
kahawe 15y ago
Honestly, consider taking (behavior) therapy if any of this toxic shame is left inside of you now! Work through this. Oh and, chances are you are a hacker with a good amount of money at your disposal. Nothing wrong with making up for lost experiences in the here and now. If you feel you missed out, there are gorgeous escorts way more lovely than those dumb girls in high school you lusted after and it might just help you polish your confidence a bit. It is up to you if you want to go down that road and try it but hey, more power to you if you do and come to realize that while sex is great, it isn't THAT important once you start having it. Finding a loving and honest, trustworthy partner will be so much more rewarding.
ajays 15y ago
Such feelings are natural. It used to bother me a lot too that others were getting laid, and I wasn't. Then, after some trial-and-error, I was able to "crack" the womens' code, in the sense that I was able to understand where they were coming from, and be very comfortable around them. That led to the pendulum swinging (pardon the pun) to the other extreme: I was getting more tail than any of the jocks I knew. It helped that I got into a better shape, dressed better and was able to hold a conversation with a woman without stuttering. Just like any other complex system, it takes time and effort to figure out women (and I say this with all the respect to women, from a male nerd's viewpoint). It also involves a lot of failure and disappointment in the beginning; but one does (and must) get used to that in order to make progress. Don't let rejection dampen your enthusiasm.
- sn 15y ago
  It took me a long time to understand <insert your favorite minority> too.
  - ajays 15y ago
    I know it sounds bad, but it is the truth: as very rational people, we find it a bit hard to understand women. And I say this as a person who has many more close women friends than guy friends!

lukifer 15y ago

I remember that feeling well. Took years to shake even after the first time. Without writing a novel on the subject, it helps to take a perspective lifted from evolutionary biology, and embrace your inner beast. It's possible to be too much of a nice guy.

winter_blue 15y ago
I don't think that's the right way to go. I think it's better to _change_ yourself in such a way you are more comfortable in talking/interacting with women. AND most importantly to _stop_ thinking they'll hate you just coz your a nerd. Because there's an interesting effect in play here (this applies to both men/women): if you think other people don't like you, then the way you act towards will possibly cause that to be reality. On the other hand if you actually take an interest in others and try to get to know them, even the ones who were initially repulsed by you will have change of mind.
- davidjohnstone 15y ago
  I've been reading a book called "Falling in love: Why we choose the lovers we do". It's a fascinating book, and it mentions how studies have been done to show that when people believe that other people like them, they behave in a way that actually makes other people like them. And, as the old saying goes (maybe it's not old, but I've seen it many times), the best way to be loved by people is to love people.
JonnieCache 15y ago
>It's possible to be too much of a nice guy. This is a classic nerd's reductionist view of interpersonal interaction. You are not either a nice guy or a bad boy. Your personality has many more degrees of freedom than this. If it doesn't, then that may in fact be your problem.
itmag 15y ago
It's good to be nice if you genuinely want to be nice. If you are doing it because you are living out a "covert contract", then people can smell that and it's not attractive. Have a look-see at this: http://evolutionmale.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/nice-guys-arent-really-nice/ http://evolutionmale.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/nice-guys-aren... (Not pointed at lukifer in particular, I'm sure he knows this already).

davidhansen 15y ago

I don't know how old you are, but be prepared to battle this for much of your life. At 32, I would have hoped to excise the latent misogyny and distrust of former jocks that my adolescent experiences burned into me, but it has not abated. I expect this to last a lifetime, and my only defense is to continue working on discarding cached thoughts( per the LessWrong folks )whenever they are recognized. The real kicker is that if you have a successful startup exit, it gets much worse. My own cynicism grew enormously after witnessing the dramatic change that money brought into women's attitude toward me. The day you realize a woman is sleeping with you merely as a chore to gain access to resources - well, let's just say that's not a very good day.

kahawe 15y ago
I am sorry for what you had to go through, I can relate in a way. I will recommend the same I recommended to winter_blue: consider (behavior) therapy and work through whatever pain and/or toxic shame might be left in you from the past. And on gold-digging women: they should be sufficiently easy to spot and just decide whether the sleeping-with-you and her presence is worth it to you or not. There are also great girls out there who are having just as much a hard time with some dumb male partner who would be happy to be with someone honest and hard working. Don't give up and more importantly, work through whatever pains you from the past.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  And on gold-digging women: they should be sufficiently easy to spot... I don't think so. In general, women are masters of deception (by male geek standards) and you shouldn't expect to beat them at their own game. In my experience, the only reliable way to spot a golddigger is to reveal that you are broke and have no desire to change this.
  - kahawe 15y ago
    Oh heavens no, I don't even aspire to match half of the social and manipulative skills women seem to be so born with. One thing I think I have figured out is weighing actions vs. words. And the real gold-diggers usually reveal themselves rather quickly because it is only efficient for them to get things to "being paid" mode as soon as possible. But it will take (lots of) reflective thinking to see it for what it is, that is true.

kahawe 15y ago

Honestly, consider taking (behavior) therapy if any of this toxic shame is left inside of you now! Work through this. Oh and, chances are you are a hacker with a good amount of money at your disposal. Nothing wrong with making up for lost experiences in the here and now. If you feel you missed out, there are gorgeous escorts way more lovely than those dumb girls in high school you lusted after and it might just help you polish your confidence a bit. It is up to you if you want to go down that road and try it but hey, more power to you if you do and come to realize that while sex is great, it isn't THAT important once you start having it. Finding a loving and honest, trustworthy partner will be so much more rewarding.

ajays 15y ago

Such feelings are natural. It used to bother me a lot too that others were getting laid, and I wasn't. Then, after some trial-and-error, I was able to "crack" the womens' code, in the sense that I was able to understand where they were coming from, and be very comfortable around them. That led to the pendulum swinging (pardon the pun) to the other extreme: I was getting more tail than any of the jocks I knew. It helped that I got into a better shape, dressed better and was able to hold a conversation with a woman without stuttering. Just like any other complex system, it takes time and effort to figure out women (and I say this with all the respect to women, from a male nerd's viewpoint). It also involves a lot of failure and disappointment in the beginning; but one does (and must) get used to that in order to make progress. Don't let rejection dampen your enthusiasm.

sn 15y ago
It took me a long time to understand <insert your favorite minority> too.
- ajays 15y ago
  I know it sounds bad, but it is the truth: as very rational people, we find it a bit hard to understand women. And I say this as a person who has many more close women friends than guy friends!