5 ms·

One of the great things I've come to appreciate about books in the age of digital media is that their physicality gives them a permanence. It's not just the ple

One of the great things I've come to appreciate about books in the age of digital media is that their physicality gives them a permanence. It's not just the pleasure of reading something on paper... it's that the ideas or stories committed to books are of a naturally higher quality (argue or not) because the writers knew they would be permanent; because six months had passed, and endless edits and revisions; because the authors are dead or hiding. If form can give rise to function, and I believe that it can, then this post and all the forums and blogs in the world serve a purpose totally at odds with the purpose of physical books. So.. I envy your library and hope you'll keep adding to it, and pass on your reverence of it.

ekianjo 4y ago
> that their physicality gives them a permanence. For me it's rather it gives them presence rather than permanence. A book on a shelf is filling a space. It's visible. It's available for anyone to have a look. A book on an eink device is hidden. It's invisible. It's barely accessible. You could have thousands of books on an ebook reader and nobody would know it, because they can't see any of it.
- noduerme 4y ago
  True too. I have probably 20 books queued on my e-reader but I still would rather grab books off the shelf at the end of the night ...and then find myself back in them for days
  - april_22 4y ago
    And this seems true for many people. No one I know has sticked with their e-reader and Google searches for 'Kindle' have also only been decreasing the past years. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=kindle https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=kindle
    - sundvor 4y ago
      After I got my Gen 11 PWSE on release last year I've been using it nearly daily. The warm, larger display is a game changer for me.
      - buro9 4y ago
        > Gen 11 PWSE What does this mean?
        efficax 4y ago
        Kindle Paperwhite Signature Edition
    - wyre 4y ago
      I thought maybe ‘ereader’ could show increased usage as the market has expanded, but It has even flatter trend line. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=kindle,ereader https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=kindle,e...
- slothtrop 4y ago
  I actually dislike the space-filling aspect, but greatly prefer a physical book. Any chance there's an alternative to a screen that delivers what you want, I say take it.
  - Beldin 4y ago
    If you prefer physical books, join the library. Around here, it's really cheap (or even free, I forgot) for kids. Which is great!... till you turn 18. The adult fare is less government-sponsored and would need a regular reading habit to make it worthwhile. I like reading, but don't have any regularity.
    - slothtrop 4y ago
      I do intend to get my membership again. With current goings on I'm so busy that I just buy used books to read at my own pace, then sell back. Mind you that could remain the same indefinitely. You also need updated proof of residence to get your card.
- BeFlatXIII 4y ago
  I can have thousands of books on my computer and I won't know it because they're invisible, so I read zero of them.
  - q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
    I have this same problem. I've bought a huge pile of eBooks -- sometimes because I get inspired to "get into" eBooks, and sometimes because I just crave the instant gratification -- but I always, always forget about them. I wonder what it is about the folks who are able to "get into" eBooks. Logically, I know all the value props -- great for travel and general minimalism, easy to highlight and search highlights, better for the environment, etc, etc -- but, for whatever reason, I just can't get my brain to do the thing. On balance, I think I'm okay with it. I spend an enormous portion of my real-estate budget on books, and, frankly... what else would I spend it on? That's one of the key things that it's for, if you ask me.
    - stinkytaco 4y ago
      > I wonder what it is about the folks who are able to "get into" eBooks. If you view a book as a one time use, disposable good, it's not hard. That sounds far more disrespectful than I mean it, but if you're the type of reader that's reading many things for pleasure (possibly multiple books a week) and will likely only read them once, they become more like I might view a TV show: something I want to consume conveniently and not necessarily catalog permanently. In that case, eBooks are great.
    - ThrowawayR2 4y ago
      > "I wonder what it is about the folks who are able to "get into" eBooks." I primarily use e-readers for reading pop fiction. I'm not bothered by their lack of physicality or impermanence for the same reason I don't have a problem with the impermanence of broadcast television; it's mass-market content meant to be enjoyed and forgotten.
      - q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
        Oh, that makes sense. I've never viewed books in this way -- or consumed that kind of book, really -- so I guess it was just a blind spot for me. Thanks! One small part of the great mystery of the human condition, resolved. ;)
- q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
  Beyond the presence and the permanence, there's also an interactivity that I love -- and that no eReader can even come close to. I usually take a highlighter and a pen to most books these days. Interesting passages get marked up; the margins are perfect for capturing the related thought, realization of a tie-in to another book, and whatever else; and the growing forest of dog-ears helps me find my way back to harvest all the notes later. (I'm actually really bad at going back and harvesting the notes into a useful digital format -- but I guess the presence of all of them on my bookshelf gives a nice safety blanket, you know? They're there, waiting for me.)
  - stinkytaco 4y ago
    In my line of work I get asked about the future of books with some regularity. I've got a canned, slightly jokey response by this point, but one thing I point out is that the UI of a book is really very good. Part of it is that we've got a lifetime of experience interacting with it from a very young age, but books can be browsed easily, annotated, and scanned quickly. They have an excellent screen and are easy on the eyes and are quite responsive (generally slow load times in regular use). The search is lacking, but there are generally adequate workarounds for that.
  - abc_lisper 4y ago
    This is the thing I miss most with a kindle. The flipping of pages, random seek to a approximate page etc. It is very useful to look back at headings, sections and figures.
tootie 4y ago
I'm in the process of moving (apartment to apartment) and the process of boxing up and lugging extremely heavy boxes of books so they can use up precious floorspace in my living area for no practical purpose is giving me anxiety. I'm thinking of getting rid of all by my most precious ones. In fact, most of my favorite books aren't even in this pile anywhere.
- q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
  That's interesting. I've had to do this 2 times in recent memory, and it's always been oddly therapeutic. I get a chance to hold every book and pack it just so, so that it's not hurt during the journey. And I inevitably find a few long-lost books -- "Oh, that's where you've been all along!" And I always surface a few that I meant to read and totally forgot about -- those jump straight to the top of my to-read pile, to be unboxed first in the new place. I feel a similar bit of anxiety as you when it comes to fancy furniture though. I learned a few years ago that it makes sense to buy the good stuff -- but the question is looming in the back of my mind as I prepare to move again in a few months. The boxes (of books and everything else) are perhaps easier because I know I can move them myself and treat them gently, but I worry much more about the furniture getting roughed up during the journey.
  - Beldin 4y ago
    Funny, I'm on the opposite side of the furniture-buying spectrum. Enough quality to last a while, but cheap enough to be a spur-of-the-moment decision and to not regret its end of life. Probably related to life phase: my parents picked very different furniture after kids moved out. Expensive with crap quality by design - eg. slanted legs under a chair while plenty in the family are on the heavy side.
- MivLives 4y ago
  I've moved 13 times in the last 12 years. Books are really heavy. I used to have two boxes large boxes of them but over time that's wittled down to one. What I keep are two things: Stuff that's hard to read on an ereader, or stuff that I want to lend out. The former is a mix of books that screw with the format (House of Leaves, S.) or graphic novels (Understanding Comics, Rise of the Ogre, Watchmen). The latter is mostly just formative fictions books for me (I've lent out Snow Crash ten or so times, I should really replace my copy).
TheCoelacanth 4y ago
I think a bigger difference is that books are just astoundingly cheap to produce compared to TV. That gives more freedom to take risks and try a huge number of different ideas, some of which will pay off and produce something great. For the cost of one episode of Game of Thrones, you could publish hundreds of books. Even cheap garbage like reality TV costs enough per episode to publish several books (through a real publisher, would be even more if you count self-publishing).
fuzzythinker 4y ago
For some books, the title is so good, it's worth the shelf space just for that. The one that's on my shelf that fits this theme is "The Journey is The Reward", on Steve Jobs' journey.

ekianjo 4y ago

> that their physicality gives them a permanence. For me it's rather it gives them presence rather than permanence. A book on a shelf is filling a space. It's visible. It's available for anyone to have a look. A book on an eink device is hidden. It's invisible. It's barely accessible. You could have thousands of books on an ebook reader and nobody would know it, because they can't see any of it.

noduerme 4y ago
True too. I have probably 20 books queued on my e-reader but I still would rather grab books off the shelf at the end of the night ...and then find myself back in them for days
- april_22 4y ago
  And this seems true for many people. No one I know has sticked with their e-reader and Google searches for 'Kindle' have also only been decreasing the past years. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=kindle https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=kindle
  - sundvor 4y ago
    After I got my Gen 11 PWSE on release last year I've been using it nearly daily. The warm, larger display is a game changer for me.
    - buro9 4y ago
      > Gen 11 PWSE What does this mean?
      - efficax 4y ago
        Kindle Paperwhite Signature Edition
  - wyre 4y ago
    I thought maybe ‘ereader’ could show increased usage as the market has expanded, but It has even flatter trend line. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=kindle,ereader https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=kindle,e...
slothtrop 4y ago
I actually dislike the space-filling aspect, but greatly prefer a physical book. Any chance there's an alternative to a screen that delivers what you want, I say take it.
- Beldin 4y ago
  If you prefer physical books, join the library. Around here, it's really cheap (or even free, I forgot) for kids. Which is great!... till you turn 18. The adult fare is less government-sponsored and would need a regular reading habit to make it worthwhile. I like reading, but don't have any regularity.
  - slothtrop 4y ago
    I do intend to get my membership again. With current goings on I'm so busy that I just buy used books to read at my own pace, then sell back. Mind you that could remain the same indefinitely. You also need updated proof of residence to get your card.
BeFlatXIII 4y ago
I can have thousands of books on my computer and I won't know it because they're invisible, so I read zero of them.
- q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
  I have this same problem. I've bought a huge pile of eBooks -- sometimes because I get inspired to "get into" eBooks, and sometimes because I just crave the instant gratification -- but I always, always forget about them. I wonder what it is about the folks who are able to "get into" eBooks. Logically, I know all the value props -- great for travel and general minimalism, easy to highlight and search highlights, better for the environment, etc, etc -- but, for whatever reason, I just can't get my brain to do the thing. On balance, I think I'm okay with it. I spend an enormous portion of my real-estate budget on books, and, frankly... what else would I spend it on? That's one of the key things that it's for, if you ask me.
  - stinkytaco 4y ago
    > I wonder what it is about the folks who are able to "get into" eBooks. If you view a book as a one time use, disposable good, it's not hard. That sounds far more disrespectful than I mean it, but if you're the type of reader that's reading many things for pleasure (possibly multiple books a week) and will likely only read them once, they become more like I might view a TV show: something I want to consume conveniently and not necessarily catalog permanently. In that case, eBooks are great.
  - ThrowawayR2 4y ago
    > "I wonder what it is about the folks who are able to "get into" eBooks." I primarily use e-readers for reading pop fiction. I'm not bothered by their lack of physicality or impermanence for the same reason I don't have a problem with the impermanence of broadcast television; it's mass-market content meant to be enjoyed and forgotten.
    - q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
      Oh, that makes sense. I've never viewed books in this way -- or consumed that kind of book, really -- so I guess it was just a blind spot for me. Thanks! One small part of the great mystery of the human condition, resolved. ;)
q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
Beyond the presence and the permanence, there's also an interactivity that I love -- and that no eReader can even come close to. I usually take a highlighter and a pen to most books these days. Interesting passages get marked up; the margins are perfect for capturing the related thought, realization of a tie-in to another book, and whatever else; and the growing forest of dog-ears helps me find my way back to harvest all the notes later. (I'm actually really bad at going back and harvesting the notes into a useful digital format -- but I guess the presence of all of them on my bookshelf gives a nice safety blanket, you know? They're there, waiting for me.)
- stinkytaco 4y ago
  In my line of work I get asked about the future of books with some regularity. I've got a canned, slightly jokey response by this point, but one thing I point out is that the UI of a book is really very good. Part of it is that we've got a lifetime of experience interacting with it from a very young age, but books can be browsed easily, annotated, and scanned quickly. They have an excellent screen and are easy on the eyes and are quite responsive (generally slow load times in regular use). The search is lacking, but there are generally adequate workarounds for that.
- abc_lisper 4y ago
  This is the thing I miss most with a kindle. The flipping of pages, random seek to a approximate page etc. It is very useful to look back at headings, sections and figures.

tootie 4y ago

I'm in the process of moving (apartment to apartment) and the process of boxing up and lugging extremely heavy boxes of books so they can use up precious floorspace in my living area for no practical purpose is giving me anxiety. I'm thinking of getting rid of all by my most precious ones. In fact, most of my favorite books aren't even in this pile anywhere.

q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
That's interesting. I've had to do this 2 times in recent memory, and it's always been oddly therapeutic. I get a chance to hold every book and pack it just so, so that it's not hurt during the journey. And I inevitably find a few long-lost books -- "Oh, that's where you've been all along!" And I always surface a few that I meant to read and totally forgot about -- those jump straight to the top of my to-read pile, to be unboxed first in the new place. I feel a similar bit of anxiety as you when it comes to fancy furniture though. I learned a few years ago that it makes sense to buy the good stuff -- but the question is looming in the back of my mind as I prepare to move again in a few months. The boxes (of books and everything else) are perhaps easier because I know I can move them myself and treat them gently, but I worry much more about the furniture getting roughed up during the journey.
- Beldin 4y ago
  Funny, I'm on the opposite side of the furniture-buying spectrum. Enough quality to last a while, but cheap enough to be a spur-of-the-moment decision and to not regret its end of life. Probably related to life phase: my parents picked very different furniture after kids moved out. Expensive with crap quality by design - eg. slanted legs under a chair while plenty in the family are on the heavy side.
MivLives 4y ago
I've moved 13 times in the last 12 years. Books are really heavy. I used to have two boxes large boxes of them but over time that's wittled down to one. What I keep are two things: Stuff that's hard to read on an ereader, or stuff that I want to lend out. The former is a mix of books that screw with the format (House of Leaves, S.) or graphic novels (Understanding Comics, Rise of the Ogre, Watchmen). The latter is mostly just formative fictions books for me (I've lent out Snow Crash ten or so times, I should really replace my copy).

TheCoelacanth 4y ago

I think a bigger difference is that books are just astoundingly cheap to produce compared to TV. That gives more freedom to take risks and try a huge number of different ideas, some of which will pay off and produce something great. For the cost of one episode of Game of Thrones, you could publish hundreds of books. Even cheap garbage like reality TV costs enough per episode to publish several books (through a real publisher, would be even more if you count self-publishing).

fuzzythinker 4y ago

For some books, the title is so good, it's worth the shelf space just for that. The one that's on my shelf that fits this theme is "The Journey is The Reward", on Steve Jobs' journey.