3 ms·

>Convenient way of discarding any evidence you don't like. I am sorry that reality and logic upsets you, after a software update you need to run tests again, t

>Convenient way of discarding any evidence you don't like. I am sorry that reality and logic upsets you, after a software update you need to run tests again, the history of old tests does not guarantee anything useful. Blah, blah, it only hits trucks if bullshit reasons, it should not hit giant solid objects ever. Also what is the excuse for this one? https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almost-steers-model-3-into-oncoming-train https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo... Last time the excuse was "that is normal, it is alpha software, it will be fixed in the next update". But if you read tesla subreddit you see people complaining that years old issues are still not fixed, like having issues with specific streets, road borders and similar.

mlindner 4y ago
> Also what is the excuse for this one? https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo... That's not a child. I never vouched for it's ability to avoid all possible objects. So I have no excuse. > Last time the excuse was "that is normal, it is alpha software, it will be fixed in the next update". But if you read tesla subreddit you see people complaining that years old issues are still not fixed, like having issues with specific streets, road borders and similar. This will be a thing for decades to come as we reach further and further into the number of 9s of reliability. We have 1 maybe 2 9s at this point of reliability and as you get rarer and rarer things there will always be specific instances where it doesn't work.
- simion314 4y ago
  >This will be a thing for decades to come as we reach further and further into the number of 9s of reliability. Cam you clarify? Tesla has 0.0 since they only have tested with a human driver + a driver assist that was marketed as FULL self driving. The Tesla numbers look similar with similar expensive cars that include drive assist. Tesla is not publishing the numbers when the human intervene or when the software gave up so your numbers are pulled out of Tesla PR or you mean something else(sorry for that but you are not clear). Some organization can put Tesla to the test and record it traveling and count how man times it gave up and how many times the human intervene, when this number is zero in a few tousands test then you can claim Full Self Driving or Autopilot, until then you have a driver assist , that can keep lane in some conditions and stop for some objects or peole in soem conditions.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    > Tesla has 0.0 since they only have tested with a human driver + a driver assist that was marketed as FULL self driving. I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying you can't achieve 9s of reliability if it's not driving without a person in the seat? I wouldn't want a car with only 90% (one 9) reliability for example driving without a person in the seat. > The Tesla numbers look similar with similar expensive cars that include drive assist. I'm not personally aware of any general system that doesn't rely on geolocking that can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf37o-cKOMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf37o-cKOMs If you know of an example, I'm open to looking at it. (In the above video if you want to look at any scene without the fast forward there's a link to the raw footage in the video description.) > Tesla is not publishing the numbers when the human intervene or when the software gave up so your numbers are pulled out of Tesla PR or you mean something else(sorry for that but you are not clear). I'm not using any Tesla numbers for my above comment. I'm going off of first hand experiences of non-employees who drive using the system. To be clear, the system is not in a state that I would pay the price that is being charged for it yet, personally. But it is a very good system at the top level in the industry at the moment and the best system you can actually buy (i.e. not based on a rental/taxi system like Waymo).
    - simion314 4y ago
      I am not attempting to sell you an alternative to Tesla, so I have no numbers of other company that is less shit then Tesla. If thins are as great as yuu say then there is a mystery why Tesla is not publishing the all the numbers. Most FFSD users are extreme Tesla fans, because they paid and pass some checks from Tesla so it is obvious that this extreme fanboys will only praise Tesla, show only cool videos and hide the bad stuff or try to excuse it with bullshit like "it hits trucks only if they are white or parked half a road, and I never said it won't hit all objects".
      - mlindner 4y ago
        > If thins are as great as yuu say then there is a mystery why Tesla is not publishing the all the numbers. I think because frankly they would be misleading. Other self-driving car companies only publish their disengagement rates for areas that they actually rate as supporting (i.e. within geolocked areas). Tesla is tackling the entire country at the same time. > Most FFSD users are extreme Tesla fans, because they paid and pass some checks from Tesla so it is obvious that this extreme fanboys will only praise Tesla, show only cool videos and hide the bad stuff or try to excuse it with bullshit like "it hits trucks only if they are white or parked half a road, and I never said it won't hit all objects". Several people on youtube will set out to drive their regular drives to work, and go through the work of narrating it while driving. They're not going to drive to work multiple times going to the bother of narrating it each time just to end up not publishing it. Of course some people will selectively choose which videos to show when not narrating (likely what the example video I just showed did), but that doesn't mean the drive didn't happen. Just note, if these drivers who post videos on youtube were crashing their Teslas they wouldn't be still posting videos. They're not being paid by Tesla. > "it hits trucks only if they are white or parked half a road, and I never said it won't hit all objects". I mentioned the parked in half the road because that was a legitimate problem that's been hitting the news in the last few months where they were a few cases of it hitting parked police cars that were partially in the lane. The collision avoidance system couldn't determine if the vehicle was in-lane or not because of the very small overlap.
- kaba0 4y ago
  > I never vouched for it's ability to avoid all possible objects Well, that’s the lowest of the low requirement for any form of FSD, that my robot vacuum passes. Should I call Tesla that by buying some cheap chinese robot vacuum company, they could reuse their software stack?

mlindner 4y ago

> Also what is the excuse for this one? https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo... That's not a child. I never vouched for it's ability to avoid all possible objects. So I have no excuse. > Last time the excuse was "that is normal, it is alpha software, it will be fixed in the next update". But if you read tesla subreddit you see people complaining that years old issues are still not fixed, like having issues with specific streets, road borders and similar. This will be a thing for decades to come as we reach further and further into the number of 9s of reliability. We have 1 maybe 2 9s at this point of reliability and as you get rarer and rarer things there will always be specific instances where it doesn't work.

simion314 4y ago
>This will be a thing for decades to come as we reach further and further into the number of 9s of reliability. Cam you clarify? Tesla has 0.0 since they only have tested with a human driver + a driver assist that was marketed as FULL self driving. The Tesla numbers look similar with similar expensive cars that include drive assist. Tesla is not publishing the numbers when the human intervene or when the software gave up so your numbers are pulled out of Tesla PR or you mean something else(sorry for that but you are not clear). Some organization can put Tesla to the test and record it traveling and count how man times it gave up and how many times the human intervene, when this number is zero in a few tousands test then you can claim Full Self Driving or Autopilot, until then you have a driver assist , that can keep lane in some conditions and stop for some objects or peole in soem conditions.
- mlindner 4y ago
  > Tesla has 0.0 since they only have tested with a human driver + a driver assist that was marketed as FULL self driving. I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying you can't achieve 9s of reliability if it's not driving without a person in the seat? I wouldn't want a car with only 90% (one 9) reliability for example driving without a person in the seat. > The Tesla numbers look similar with similar expensive cars that include drive assist. I'm not personally aware of any general system that doesn't rely on geolocking that can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf37o-cKOMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf37o-cKOMs If you know of an example, I'm open to looking at it. (In the above video if you want to look at any scene without the fast forward there's a link to the raw footage in the video description.) > Tesla is not publishing the numbers when the human intervene or when the software gave up so your numbers are pulled out of Tesla PR or you mean something else(sorry for that but you are not clear). I'm not using any Tesla numbers for my above comment. I'm going off of first hand experiences of non-employees who drive using the system. To be clear, the system is not in a state that I would pay the price that is being charged for it yet, personally. But it is a very good system at the top level in the industry at the moment and the best system you can actually buy (i.e. not based on a rental/taxi system like Waymo).
  - simion314 4y ago
    I am not attempting to sell you an alternative to Tesla, so I have no numbers of other company that is less shit then Tesla. If thins are as great as yuu say then there is a mystery why Tesla is not publishing the all the numbers. Most FFSD users are extreme Tesla fans, because they paid and pass some checks from Tesla so it is obvious that this extreme fanboys will only praise Tesla, show only cool videos and hide the bad stuff or try to excuse it with bullshit like "it hits trucks only if they are white or parked half a road, and I never said it won't hit all objects".
    - mlindner 4y ago
      > If thins are as great as yuu say then there is a mystery why Tesla is not publishing the all the numbers. I think because frankly they would be misleading. Other self-driving car companies only publish their disengagement rates for areas that they actually rate as supporting (i.e. within geolocked areas). Tesla is tackling the entire country at the same time. > Most FFSD users are extreme Tesla fans, because they paid and pass some checks from Tesla so it is obvious that this extreme fanboys will only praise Tesla, show only cool videos and hide the bad stuff or try to excuse it with bullshit like "it hits trucks only if they are white or parked half a road, and I never said it won't hit all objects". Several people on youtube will set out to drive their regular drives to work, and go through the work of narrating it while driving. They're not going to drive to work multiple times going to the bother of narrating it each time just to end up not publishing it. Of course some people will selectively choose which videos to show when not narrating (likely what the example video I just showed did), but that doesn't mean the drive didn't happen. Just note, if these drivers who post videos on youtube were crashing their Teslas they wouldn't be still posting videos. They're not being paid by Tesla. > "it hits trucks only if they are white or parked half a road, and I never said it won't hit all objects". I mentioned the parked in half the road because that was a legitimate problem that's been hitting the news in the last few months where they were a few cases of it hitting parked police cars that were partially in the lane. The collision avoidance system couldn't determine if the vehicle was in-lane or not because of the very small overlap.
kaba0 4y ago
> I never vouched for it's ability to avoid all possible objects Well, that’s the lowest of the low requirement for any form of FSD, that my robot vacuum passes. Should I call Tesla that by buying some cheap chinese robot vacuum company, they could reuse their software stack?