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Related: I believe my ability to retain an “internal map” of an area was ripped to shreds by non-euclidian games. The first time I turned three corners and end

Related: I believe my ability to retain an “internal map” of an area was ripped to shreds by non-euclidian games. The first time I turned three corners and ended up in a different place it feels like my brain threw the desk up at the idea that 3D space had euclidean rules, and I’ve been struggling ever since. Of course I still continue to enjoy those types of games, so it’s not like a single game did all the damage.

edanm 4y ago
Can you give an example of a game? This sounds intriguing.
- FumblingBear 4y ago
  Antichamber [0] is a masterclass in this type of spatial disorientation. I really enjoyed the way this game approached puzzle design and how it constantly subverted expectations. Another great one is The Stanley Parable: Ultra Deluxe. [1] Initially, the game doesn't play around with spatial disorientation much, but certain branches of the narrative really lean into it in a delightfully satirical way. Finally, Superliminal [2] explores some similar concepts to Antichamber but with a very different approach. There a plenty more examples, but hopefully that gives you a jumping off point to see that gameplay in action. I thoroughly enjoyed all three! [0] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/219890/Antichamber/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/219890/Antichamber/ [1] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1703340/The_Stanley_Parable_Ultra_Deluxe/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1703340/The_Stanley_Parab... [2] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1049410/Superliminal/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1049410/Superliminal/
  - coryfklein 4y ago
    > I believe my ability to retain an “internal map” of an area was ripped to shreds by non-euclidian games. So fascinating to see such opposite recommendations for these games! I'm not sure whether to try them, or run away haha.
    - FumblingBear 4y ago
      Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't struggle to maintain internal maps in real life or in games that are intentionally disorienting, so your mileage may vary! I also have aphantasia, so perhaps that's somehow related? I don't physically create a map in my head, I just have an innate sense of where things should be after familiarizing myself with a particular area. Perhaps since I don't physically create a map in my head, the disassociation between what is expected and what is actually happening in front of me for games like that doesn't create the same level of cognitive dissonance? Just spitballing here haha.
      - joshspankit 4y ago
        I am excited for a time when we have easier language for talking about those nuances. Aphantasia may indeed be related! It may be the direct reason, or it may be one small piece of a larger puzzle that we’re barely scratching the surface of!
    - joshspankit 4y ago
      I mean.. In the world of GPS’s and always-available internet, do you really need the ability to accurately map spaces in your head? Personally, if I could go back and change it I’d still play them knowing what I know now. I would probably also keep a better eye on my brain and try to teach it to play games and trust euclidean space, but besides getting lost “in the old days” it hasn’t hurt me that bad
- albrewer 4y ago
  Hyperbolica is a recent example
- User23 4y ago
  The earliest one I can think of is the multiplayer Marathon map 5-d space[1][2]. I'm virtually certain it's not actually the first, but if you were a Mac gamer in the 90s it's the most memorable. [1] https://marathon.bungie.org/spoiler/m2/41.shtml https://marathon.bungie.org/spoiler/m2/41.shtml [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WxeeiqWrn4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WxeeiqWrn4
- joshspankit 4y ago
  There are some of the great non-euclidean games listed by the other repliers so I’ll jump to the first one: Unfortunately I looked and can’t figure out it’s name or even which system it was on (hopefully others can help), but here are the details that I still have: It had blocky graphics but decent for the time. 3rd person over the shoulder. For some reason the image of a Roman helmet comes to mind but was the character wearing it? Was it a prop?... You were in (a house?) and it seemed normal for most of the game. But then bit by bit your character went insane and you saw the world the way they were. It genuinely caught me off-guard when a bust on a shelf suddenly moved enough to be noticeable. Then other things changed, and paths didn’t lead where they were supposed to. I don’t know if I even passed that game, but it sticks out as possibly the first time my internal “rules of available directions” were broken. Since then I’ve played with all sorts of non-euclidean things. From 4D Rubik’s cubes to VR environments that are nothing like the real world. Great fun, fascinating, and at times an enjoyable kind of confusing.
- joshspankit 4y ago
  One recent one that threw me sideways a little extra: Tea for God (Quest). “..allow players infinite movement within their own place.“ You have to play roomscale and with only walking (+ elevators) for movement you explore huge procedurally-generated structures. It even adapts to the size of your play space.

edanm 4y ago

Can you give an example of a game? This sounds intriguing.

FumblingBear 4y ago
Antichamber [0] is a masterclass in this type of spatial disorientation. I really enjoyed the way this game approached puzzle design and how it constantly subverted expectations. Another great one is The Stanley Parable: Ultra Deluxe. [1] Initially, the game doesn't play around with spatial disorientation much, but certain branches of the narrative really lean into it in a delightfully satirical way. Finally, Superliminal [2] explores some similar concepts to Antichamber but with a very different approach. There a plenty more examples, but hopefully that gives you a jumping off point to see that gameplay in action. I thoroughly enjoyed all three! [0] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/219890/Antichamber/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/219890/Antichamber/ [1] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1703340/The_Stanley_Parable_Ultra_Deluxe/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1703340/The_Stanley_Parab... [2] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1049410/Superliminal/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1049410/Superliminal/
- coryfklein 4y ago
  > I believe my ability to retain an “internal map” of an area was ripped to shreds by non-euclidian games. So fascinating to see such opposite recommendations for these games! I'm not sure whether to try them, or run away haha.
  - FumblingBear 4y ago
    Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't struggle to maintain internal maps in real life or in games that are intentionally disorienting, so your mileage may vary! I also have aphantasia, so perhaps that's somehow related? I don't physically create a map in my head, I just have an innate sense of where things should be after familiarizing myself with a particular area. Perhaps since I don't physically create a map in my head, the disassociation between what is expected and what is actually happening in front of me for games like that doesn't create the same level of cognitive dissonance? Just spitballing here haha.
    - joshspankit 4y ago
      I am excited for a time when we have easier language for talking about those nuances. Aphantasia may indeed be related! It may be the direct reason, or it may be one small piece of a larger puzzle that we’re barely scratching the surface of!
  - joshspankit 4y ago
    I mean.. In the world of GPS’s and always-available internet, do you really need the ability to accurately map spaces in your head? Personally, if I could go back and change it I’d still play them knowing what I know now. I would probably also keep a better eye on my brain and try to teach it to play games and trust euclidean space, but besides getting lost “in the old days” it hasn’t hurt me that bad
albrewer 4y ago
Hyperbolica is a recent example
User23 4y ago
The earliest one I can think of is the multiplayer Marathon map 5-d space[1][2]. I'm virtually certain it's not actually the first, but if you were a Mac gamer in the 90s it's the most memorable. [1] https://marathon.bungie.org/spoiler/m2/41.shtml https://marathon.bungie.org/spoiler/m2/41.shtml [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WxeeiqWrn4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WxeeiqWrn4
joshspankit 4y ago
There are some of the great non-euclidean games listed by the other repliers so I’ll jump to the first one: Unfortunately I looked and can’t figure out it’s name or even which system it was on (hopefully others can help), but here are the details that I still have: It had blocky graphics but decent for the time. 3rd person over the shoulder. For some reason the image of a Roman helmet comes to mind but was the character wearing it? Was it a prop?... You were in (a house?) and it seemed normal for most of the game. But then bit by bit your character went insane and you saw the world the way they were. It genuinely caught me off-guard when a bust on a shelf suddenly moved enough to be noticeable. Then other things changed, and paths didn’t lead where they were supposed to. I don’t know if I even passed that game, but it sticks out as possibly the first time my internal “rules of available directions” were broken. Since then I’ve played with all sorts of non-euclidean things. From 4D Rubik’s cubes to VR environments that are nothing like the real world. Great fun, fascinating, and at times an enjoyable kind of confusing.
joshspankit 4y ago
One recent one that threw me sideways a little extra: Tea for God (Quest). “..allow players infinite movement within their own place.“ You have to play roomscale and with only walking (+ elevators) for movement you explore huge procedurally-generated structures. It even adapts to the size of your play space.