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Yes, sometimes is stops for train and trucks too, but some other times depending on lighting or who knows what it will drive you into a truck at full speed. An

Yes, sometimes is stops for train and trucks too, but some other times depending on lighting or who knows what it will drive you into a truck at full speed. And on top of that all old tests are invalid since new updates could change things. As long as the driver does it's job the human saves the FSD and you will never see publish by Elon the number of how many times the human saved the day.

mlindner 4y ago
> And on top of that all old tests are invalid since new updates could change things. Convenient way of discarding any evidence you don't like. > Yes, sometimes is stops for train and trucks too, but some other times depending on lighting or who knows what it will drive you into a truck at full speed. Not sometimes, always. The only times it doesn't of note is what I would call "small overlap into lane" situations. By that I mean the vehicle is almost entirely out of the fixed lane lines on a highway, but a police vehicle is sitting partially into the lane to block the traffic which is something that they do sometimes. Some Teslas have apparently had issue with this which is why they're working to improve that. I haven't heard any recent events of it in the last month or so so it may be fixed by now.
- simion314 4y ago
  >Convenient way of discarding any evidence you don't like. I am sorry that reality and logic upsets you, after a software update you need to run tests again, the history of old tests does not guarantee anything useful. Blah, blah, it only hits trucks if bullshit reasons, it should not hit giant solid objects ever. Also what is the excuse for this one? https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almost-steers-model-3-into-oncoming-train https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo... Last time the excuse was "that is normal, it is alpha software, it will be fixed in the next update". But if you read tesla subreddit you see people complaining that years old issues are still not fixed, like having issues with specific streets, road borders and similar.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    > Also what is the excuse for this one? https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo... That's not a child. I never vouched for it's ability to avoid all possible objects. So I have no excuse. > Last time the excuse was "that is normal, it is alpha software, it will be fixed in the next update". But if you read tesla subreddit you see people complaining that years old issues are still not fixed, like having issues with specific streets, road borders and similar. This will be a thing for decades to come as we reach further and further into the number of 9s of reliability. We have 1 maybe 2 9s at this point of reliability and as you get rarer and rarer things there will always be specific instances where it doesn't work.
    - simion314 4y ago
      >This will be a thing for decades to come as we reach further and further into the number of 9s of reliability. Cam you clarify? Tesla has 0.0 since they only have tested with a human driver + a driver assist that was marketed as FULL self driving. The Tesla numbers look similar with similar expensive cars that include drive assist. Tesla is not publishing the numbers when the human intervene or when the software gave up so your numbers are pulled out of Tesla PR or you mean something else(sorry for that but you are not clear). Some organization can put Tesla to the test and record it traveling and count how man times it gave up and how many times the human intervene, when this number is zero in a few tousands test then you can claim Full Self Driving or Autopilot, until then you have a driver assist , that can keep lane in some conditions and stop for some objects or peole in soem conditions.
      - mlindner 4y ago
        > Tesla has 0.0 since they only have tested with a human driver + a driver assist that was marketed as FULL self driving. I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying you can't achieve 9s of reliability if it's not driving without a person in the seat? I wouldn't want a car with only 90% (one 9) reliability for example driving without a person in the seat. > The Tesla numbers look similar with similar expensive cars that include drive assist. I'm not personally aware of any general system that doesn't rely on geolocking that can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf37o-cKOMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf37o-cKOMs If you know of an example, I'm open to looking at it. (In the above video if you want to look at any scene without the fast forward there's a link to the raw footage in the video description.) > Tesla is not publishing the numbers when the human intervene or when the software gave up so your numbers are pulled out of Tesla PR or you mean something else(sorry for that but you are not clear). I'm not using any Tesla numbers for my above comment. I'm going off of first hand experiences of non-employees who drive using the system. To be clear, the system is not in a state that I would pay the price that is being charged for it yet, personally. But it is a very good system at the top level in the industry at the moment and the best system you can actually buy (i.e. not based on a rental/taxi system like Waymo).
- kaba0 4y ago
  > Convenient way of discarding any evidence you don't like. In a black box algorithm this is quite literally the case. Even in just regular programming, you ain’t claiming that master is correct just because the previous relase’s CI pipeline is all green, do you? Car tests are stable when they only test hardware - once software is in the picture, they are all invalid instantly.

mlindner 4y ago

> And on top of that all old tests are invalid since new updates could change things. Convenient way of discarding any evidence you don't like. > Yes, sometimes is stops for train and trucks too, but some other times depending on lighting or who knows what it will drive you into a truck at full speed. Not sometimes, always. The only times it doesn't of note is what I would call "small overlap into lane" situations. By that I mean the vehicle is almost entirely out of the fixed lane lines on a highway, but a police vehicle is sitting partially into the lane to block the traffic which is something that they do sometimes. Some Teslas have apparently had issue with this which is why they're working to improve that. I haven't heard any recent events of it in the last month or so so it may be fixed by now.

simion314 4y ago
>Convenient way of discarding any evidence you don't like. I am sorry that reality and logic upsets you, after a software update you need to run tests again, the history of old tests does not guarantee anything useful. Blah, blah, it only hits trucks if bullshit reasons, it should not hit giant solid objects ever. Also what is the excuse for this one? https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almost-steers-model-3-into-oncoming-train https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo... Last time the excuse was "that is normal, it is alpha software, it will be fixed in the next update". But if you read tesla subreddit you see people complaining that years old issues are still not fixed, like having issues with specific streets, road borders and similar.
- mlindner 4y ago
  > Also what is the excuse for this one? https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo https://www.thedrive.com/news/watch-as-teslas-autopilot-almo... That's not a child. I never vouched for it's ability to avoid all possible objects. So I have no excuse. > Last time the excuse was "that is normal, it is alpha software, it will be fixed in the next update". But if you read tesla subreddit you see people complaining that years old issues are still not fixed, like having issues with specific streets, road borders and similar. This will be a thing for decades to come as we reach further and further into the number of 9s of reliability. We have 1 maybe 2 9s at this point of reliability and as you get rarer and rarer things there will always be specific instances where it doesn't work.
  - simion314 4y ago
    >This will be a thing for decades to come as we reach further and further into the number of 9s of reliability. Cam you clarify? Tesla has 0.0 since they only have tested with a human driver + a driver assist that was marketed as FULL self driving. The Tesla numbers look similar with similar expensive cars that include drive assist. Tesla is not publishing the numbers when the human intervene or when the software gave up so your numbers are pulled out of Tesla PR or you mean something else(sorry for that but you are not clear). Some organization can put Tesla to the test and record it traveling and count how man times it gave up and how many times the human intervene, when this number is zero in a few tousands test then you can claim Full Self Driving or Autopilot, until then you have a driver assist , that can keep lane in some conditions and stop for some objects or peole in soem conditions.
    - mlindner 4y ago
      > Tesla has 0.0 since they only have tested with a human driver + a driver assist that was marketed as FULL self driving. I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying you can't achieve 9s of reliability if it's not driving without a person in the seat? I wouldn't want a car with only 90% (one 9) reliability for example driving without a person in the seat. > The Tesla numbers look similar with similar expensive cars that include drive assist. I'm not personally aware of any general system that doesn't rely on geolocking that can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf37o-cKOMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf37o-cKOMs If you know of an example, I'm open to looking at it. (In the above video if you want to look at any scene without the fast forward there's a link to the raw footage in the video description.) > Tesla is not publishing the numbers when the human intervene or when the software gave up so your numbers are pulled out of Tesla PR or you mean something else(sorry for that but you are not clear). I'm not using any Tesla numbers for my above comment. I'm going off of first hand experiences of non-employees who drive using the system. To be clear, the system is not in a state that I would pay the price that is being charged for it yet, personally. But it is a very good system at the top level in the industry at the moment and the best system you can actually buy (i.e. not based on a rental/taxi system like Waymo).
kaba0 4y ago
> Convenient way of discarding any evidence you don't like. In a black box algorithm this is quite literally the case. Even in just regular programming, you ain’t claiming that master is correct just because the previous relase’s CI pipeline is all green, do you? Car tests are stable when they only test hardware - once software is in the picture, they are all invalid instantly.