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This is only news because people labeled conspiracy theorists have been making this claim since the beginning, and now the CDC has to quietly admit that those p

This is only news because people labeled conspiracy theorists have been making this claim since the beginning, and now the CDC has to quietly admit that those people were correct. What else will the conspiracy theorists be correct about?

origin_path 4y ago
Relevant meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2002287-wikihow https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2002287-wikihow A list of claims that are likely to see some kind of quiet semi-official recognition over the next five years: 1. COVID vaccines can injure and kill people. 2. They do so at a much higher rate than other vaccines have done in the past. 3. They can hurt fertility (see the recent crash in birth rates around the world). 4. For the vast majority they were not a good cost/benefit tradeoff. 5. Lockdowns were a failed policy and failed in the way lockdown opponents said they'd be at the start. Some of these things are actually already being admitted in some quarters, if you look closely. Bill Gates, Mr Vaccine himself, recently admitted that COVID is a disease that "a disease mainly of the elderly, kind of like flu". Remember how people who said COVID is basically a bad flu were treated in 2020? How people who said the vaccines don't make sense for anyone except the elderly in 2021? And w.r.t. injuries you're seeing the Nordic countries pull the vaccines for young people because the cost/benefit tradeoff is wrong. Moderna specifically got banned in parts of Europe for I think the under 30s, though if you look at the data used to justify that it should really have been for more like the under 50s and that data is certainly way too optimistic anyway due to under-reporting. So far it's still dead silence on fertility. But birth rates are public. Anyone can draw graphs of them, align them seasonally and see the massive drop that starts 9 months after the vaccine rollout reached women of childbearing age. Reality is most of the things labelled as conspiracy theories never were. They were people saying wait, these decisions make no rational sense, this is clearly mass hysteria and needs to be opposed. No conspiracy was invoked by the vast majority of the most vocal opponents I follow - just irrationality and institutional, culturally embedded ethical problems in the public health sector.
- anankaie 4y ago
  It did not help that there were strong political partisan effects further corrupting this situation beyond what you have noted. I have to admit, I really wonder what the counterfactual world (where Trump got elected for a second term) would look like with respect to which groups believe which information.
- exq 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - origin_path 4y ago
    That started in Q1 2020, not Q1 2022. So no, it's not that. Birth rates were unaffected throughout the worst of lockdowns and the economic crash.
  - bzzzt 4y ago
    Also, don't forget to compensate for 2 years of isolation instead of people going to bars, concerts, schools. Much less opportunity of meeting each other and doing the thing that leads to babies...
  - troon-lover 4y ago
- plundgren 4y ago
  You are clearly oversimplifying the relation between fertility and vaccines. You have no data to back up causation rather than correlation. It is the same flawed argument used by people who think vaccines cause autism. "Oh my kid presented with autism when he was checked and was recently vaccinated, clearly it must be the cause!".
  - origin_path 4y ago
    No, there's actually plenty of data. Huge numbers of women have reported disrupted periods immediately after taking the vaccines. They were all ignored, of course because of dumb "correlation is not causation" arguments like yours. Correlation does not imply causation but causation always implies correlation, so when something fundamentally changes in a biological process as basic as reproduction and the only change of similar scale that matches temporally is an experimental new medical technology, you have to be willfully blind to not want an immediate, thorough and unconflicted investigation into that, because if it isn't the vaccines then that is one hell of a coincidence. We aren't going to get such an investigation of course, because the public health community doesn't want to admit the possibility that their policies have negative side effects. So correlations will be the best we'll get.
jrnichols 4y ago
That the effectiveness of "face coverings" was vastly overstated.

origin_path 4y ago

Relevant meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2002287-wikihow https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2002287-wikihow A list of claims that are likely to see some kind of quiet semi-official recognition over the next five years: 1. COVID vaccines can injure and kill people. 2. They do so at a much higher rate than other vaccines have done in the past. 3. They can hurt fertility (see the recent crash in birth rates around the world). 4. For the vast majority they were not a good cost/benefit tradeoff. 5. Lockdowns were a failed policy and failed in the way lockdown opponents said they'd be at the start. Some of these things are actually already being admitted in some quarters, if you look closely. Bill Gates, Mr Vaccine himself, recently admitted that COVID is a disease that "a disease mainly of the elderly, kind of like flu". Remember how people who said COVID is basically a bad flu were treated in 2020? How people who said the vaccines don't make sense for anyone except the elderly in 2021? And w.r.t. injuries you're seeing the Nordic countries pull the vaccines for young people because the cost/benefit tradeoff is wrong. Moderna specifically got banned in parts of Europe for I think the under 30s, though if you look at the data used to justify that it should really have been for more like the under 50s and that data is certainly way too optimistic anyway due to under-reporting. So far it's still dead silence on fertility. But birth rates are public. Anyone can draw graphs of them, align them seasonally and see the massive drop that starts 9 months after the vaccine rollout reached women of childbearing age. Reality is most of the things labelled as conspiracy theories never were. They were people saying wait, these decisions make no rational sense, this is clearly mass hysteria and needs to be opposed. No conspiracy was invoked by the vast majority of the most vocal opponents I follow - just irrationality and institutional, culturally embedded ethical problems in the public health sector.

anankaie 4y ago
It did not help that there were strong political partisan effects further corrupting this situation beyond what you have noted. I have to admit, I really wonder what the counterfactual world (where Trump got elected for a second term) would look like with respect to which groups believe which information.
exq 4y ago
[flagged]
- origin_path 4y ago
  That started in Q1 2020, not Q1 2022. So no, it's not that. Birth rates were unaffected throughout the worst of lockdowns and the economic crash.
- bzzzt 4y ago
  Also, don't forget to compensate for 2 years of isolation instead of people going to bars, concerts, schools. Much less opportunity of meeting each other and doing the thing that leads to babies...
- troon-lover 4y ago
plundgren 4y ago
You are clearly oversimplifying the relation between fertility and vaccines. You have no data to back up causation rather than correlation. It is the same flawed argument used by people who think vaccines cause autism. "Oh my kid presented with autism when he was checked and was recently vaccinated, clearly it must be the cause!".
- origin_path 4y ago
  No, there's actually plenty of data. Huge numbers of women have reported disrupted periods immediately after taking the vaccines. They were all ignored, of course because of dumb "correlation is not causation" arguments like yours. Correlation does not imply causation but causation always implies correlation, so when something fundamentally changes in a biological process as basic as reproduction and the only change of similar scale that matches temporally is an experimental new medical technology, you have to be willfully blind to not want an immediate, thorough and unconflicted investigation into that, because if it isn't the vaccines then that is one hell of a coincidence. We aren't going to get such an investigation of course, because the public health community doesn't want to admit the possibility that their policies have negative side effects. So correlations will be the best we'll get.

jrnichols 4y ago

That the effectiveness of "face coverings" was vastly overstated.