4 ms·

The interesting thing about caste is that it's basically invisible: unlike race, you can't tell somebody's caste by looking at them. (There is some correlation

The interesting thing about caste is that it's basically invisible: unlike race, you can't tell somebody's caste by looking at them. (There is some correlation to skin color, but there are also plenty of eg Tamil Brahmins who are very dark-skinned.) Which is why caste-conscious Indians meeting new people go through an elaborate dance asking about family name, where they're from, if they're vegetarian etc to figure out their caste.

bodhiandpysics1 4y ago
It's often also very local. Everyone knows who some castes are like Patels and Nayars, but how many people in north india know that vellalars are relatively high caste (but not brahman) for instance. And of course the specific relationship between various castes can change village to village.
rg111 4y ago
Indian friend told me that you can know the caste by their last names. And this is true for most last names. Isn't that true?
- chupchap 4y ago
  True if you know all the caste names, but a lot of caste names in the south don't fit into the four buckets used in the north. Which makes for a very interesting discussion.
- samarthr1 4y ago
  Due to the actions of EV Ramaswamy Naicker, a lot of Brahmins from Tamil Nadu were forced to give up their traditional surnames, and made to instead take on their father's names.
  - hzay 4y ago
    Ah, found the racist brahmin. First time I'm hearing this passive aggressive "Naicker" attached to Periyar's name. I'm torn between calling you out and asking for a source for your claim. Going to do both. Salty much? Plz link to source lol.
margalabargala 4y ago
While in the USA at the moment, I would agree that most racism that's seen is based on clearly-visible skin color, I would argue that's a fairly new development. My grandparents were born in the 1920s. One side is Polish, the other side is Italian. With the exception of my Grandfather who looked extremely Sicilian, none of them would have their ethnicity readily apparent to someone in the late 30s who may have posted a job with "Poles need not apply". Until they mentioned their surname, of course. There's plenty of racism still against Jewish people as well, and I would argue that the vast majority of Jewish people are utterly invisible, unless someone jumps through very similar hoops to the Indians you mention, asking about family name etc.
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > My grandparents were born in the 1920s. One side is Polish, the other side is Italian. Columbus Day was started by the Italian community to show that they were 'really American': > The first national Columbus Day was proclaimed in 1892 by Republican President Benjamin Harrison to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Italian-born explorer Christopher Columbus’s supposed discovery of America. > But for Harrison, it served another purpose: to help resolve a diplomatic crisis with Italy — and gain support among Italian American voters — after rioters in New Orleans lynched 11 Italian immigrants the year before. * https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/10/10/columbus-day-benjamin-harrison-mob-italians/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/10/10/columbus-d... Italians were not "white" to many Americans: * https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/12/opinion/columbus-day-italian-american-racism.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/12/opinion/colum...

bodhiandpysics1 4y ago

It's often also very local. Everyone knows who some castes are like Patels and Nayars, but how many people in north india know that vellalars are relatively high caste (but not brahman) for instance. And of course the specific relationship between various castes can change village to village.

rg111 4y ago

Indian friend told me that you can know the caste by their last names. And this is true for most last names. Isn't that true?

chupchap 4y ago
True if you know all the caste names, but a lot of caste names in the south don't fit into the four buckets used in the north. Which makes for a very interesting discussion.
samarthr1 4y ago
Due to the actions of EV Ramaswamy Naicker, a lot of Brahmins from Tamil Nadu were forced to give up their traditional surnames, and made to instead take on their father's names.
- hzay 4y ago
  Ah, found the racist brahmin. First time I'm hearing this passive aggressive "Naicker" attached to Periyar's name. I'm torn between calling you out and asking for a source for your claim. Going to do both. Salty much? Plz link to source lol.

margalabargala 4y ago

While in the USA at the moment, I would agree that most racism that's seen is based on clearly-visible skin color, I would argue that's a fairly new development. My grandparents were born in the 1920s. One side is Polish, the other side is Italian. With the exception of my Grandfather who looked extremely Sicilian, none of them would have their ethnicity readily apparent to someone in the late 30s who may have posted a job with "Poles need not apply". Until they mentioned their surname, of course. There's plenty of racism still against Jewish people as well, and I would argue that the vast majority of Jewish people are utterly invisible, unless someone jumps through very similar hoops to the Indians you mention, asking about family name etc.

throw0101a 4y ago
> My grandparents were born in the 1920s. One side is Polish, the other side is Italian. Columbus Day was started by the Italian community to show that they were 'really American': > The first national Columbus Day was proclaimed in 1892 by Republican President Benjamin Harrison to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Italian-born explorer Christopher Columbus’s supposed discovery of America. > But for Harrison, it served another purpose: to help resolve a diplomatic crisis with Italy — and gain support among Italian American voters — after rioters in New Orleans lynched 11 Italian immigrants the year before. * https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/10/10/columbus-day-benjamin-harrison-mob-italians/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/10/10/columbus-d... Italians were not "white" to many Americans: * https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/12/opinion/columbus-day-italian-american-racism.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/12/opinion/colum...