4 ms·

Chill. It’s a very common colloquial way to refer to big machinery. “A Tesla almost hit a pedestrian” “I’ll just mill that part on the ol Bridgeport” “For m

Chill. It’s a very common colloquial way to refer to big machinery. “A Tesla almost hit a pedestrian” “I’ll just mill that part on the ol Bridgeport” “For my 18th birthday my dad bought me a Chevy” “Looks like the neighbours bought a brand new John Deere” Etc.

naikrovek 4y ago
- waste_monk 4y ago
  > You don’t jailbreak an Apple, you don’t borrow a library, and you don’t order a McDonald’s. You can indeed jailbreak an Apple and order Mcdonald's. >It’s an important distinction and everyone is looking at me like I’m a moron because I know that and they don’t. You're being unnecessarily pedantic. Anyone who actually cares about the distinction can watch the DefCon presentation or view the associated media about it. I would think most HN users don't own industrial agricultural machinery that they'd be desperate to jailbreak, and those who do are probably already in the right communities. For everyone else this is just cool news about jail-breaking / right to repair / etc., and are not going to need to implement it in practice. For what it's worth, it is apparently model 2630 and 4240 control consoles which appear in a variety of tractor models. >Also, don’t tell someone to “chill.” It is extremely disrespectful and incendiary. It is appropriate to tell someone to chill out when they're needlessly dramatic and aggressive over trivial details. Check your ego at the door.
  - naikrovek 4y ago
    - randomdata 4y ago
      > you can't jailbreak "an" Apple, and you can't order "a" McDonald's. Nor can you drive a Ferrari, but people often say such things anyway, especially when they don't know what kind of Ferrari it is that they see being driven where only recognizing the Ferrari branding. This is not uncommon at all. It's only less common when specifics are common knowledge. Most people are familiar with Apple's products, so they can be more specific. Most people are familiar with McDonald's products, so they can be more specific. Most people have absolutely no idea what John Deere does beyond some fuzzy notion of "farm equipment manufacturer". In hospitality, "I'll order a Local Craft Beer Co." is something I hear quite often, where the individual beers made by 'Local Craft Beer Co.' don't have wide recognition. This is functionally the same as your McDonalds example.
    - waste_monk 4y ago
      >you can't jailbreak "an" Apple You can, because any fluent English speaker will understand that you are referring to some type of mobile phone or tablet device manufactured by Apple (which implicitly excludes Macbook, iMac, etc. devices that do not need to be jailbroken). It is not necessary to specify exact model numbers and so on. Keep in mind the source material was a tweet and not a media release or technical documentation where that level of detail would be appropriate. The use of colloquialisms is fine in casual communication. > and you can't order "a" McDonald's. Because no one would say "I'm going to order a McDonald's" without specifying some particular item. But if you are ordering McDonald's in general you would drop the "a", e.g. if you were with a group of people you might say "I'm ordering McDonald's, does anyone want anything?", you wouldn't say "I'm ordering a McDonald's cheeseburger, does anyone want anything?" as it is far more clumsy and the other people involved will neither care or need to know about what you are ordering for yourself. Out of curiosity, is English an acquired language for you? I have seen ESL speakers with similar problems when informal / day-to-day use of the language differs from the more formal version they were taught.
      - naikrovek 4y ago
  - dang 4y ago
    Please don't break the site guidelines yourself, regardless of what another commenter is doing or you feel they are. It only makes the thread worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - waste_monk 4y ago
      My apologies. I appreciate the effort that goes into moderating this place and making it such a pleasant community, and I'm sorry to have caused you extra work.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  It sounds like you want more detail. That is different than claiming that the author doesn't know proper English. To reiterate what the other poster said, referring to a tractor as a John Deere is perfectly valid coloquial English. You wouldn't refer to an iphone as an Apple because Apple is generally known to produce several different categories of products. John Deere is broadly understood to only make tractors. Also, the article "a" in front of "a John Deere" is an additional clue that we are talking about a product, not the company. If you find that hard to understand, you might want to avoid casting aspersions about other people's English skills.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    > John Deere is broadly understood to only make tractors. It is not a tractor that is jailbroken here, though; not even a computer built into a tractor. It is their "Universal Display" that has been jailbroken, which is a computer that is sold as an independent unit. Often you will move these displays between machines and, in some cases, even use them in tractors built by other manufacturers or even away from farm machines entirely. For all intents and purposes it is a different category of product. > You wouldn't refer to an iphone as an Apple because Apple is generally known to produce several different categories of products. I expect the real difference here is that the iPhone is a household name. Most know what an iPhone is and are able to recognize one when they see it. It would absolutely get called "an Apple" if that is all that was known about the device. In fact, I know some not-so-technically-engaged people who do call their iPhone "an Apple", reflecting the branding visible on their device. Apple removed the iPhone logo several iterations ago. How many are familiar with the 4640 Universal Display? Approaching nobody, I expect. Especially when at a tech conference and not a farm show. The device is branded with "John Deere" and no other visible markings, so it is understandable that it was called that in the absence of additional information.
    - naikrovek 4y ago
      > so it is understandable that it was called that in the absence of additional information no it isn't; the attackers have that information and could have looked it up if they didn't. "John Deere" is three things: a company, a brand/trademark of that company, and a dead person whom the company and trademark are named after. none of those things can be jailbroken. all I am trying to say is that "jailbroken a John Deere" makes zero sense on its own, and doesn't convey any useful information on its own. THATS ALL IM TRYING TO SAY
dang 4y ago
Please omit swipes like "Chill." from your posts on HN. They just lead to more flamewar. Your comment would be just fine without that bit. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

naikrovek 4y ago

waste_monk 4y ago
> You don’t jailbreak an Apple, you don’t borrow a library, and you don’t order a McDonald’s. You can indeed jailbreak an Apple and order Mcdonald's. >It’s an important distinction and everyone is looking at me like I’m a moron because I know that and they don’t. You're being unnecessarily pedantic. Anyone who actually cares about the distinction can watch the DefCon presentation or view the associated media about it. I would think most HN users don't own industrial agricultural machinery that they'd be desperate to jailbreak, and those who do are probably already in the right communities. For everyone else this is just cool news about jail-breaking / right to repair / etc., and are not going to need to implement it in practice. For what it's worth, it is apparently model 2630 and 4240 control consoles which appear in a variety of tractor models. >Also, don’t tell someone to “chill.” It is extremely disrespectful and incendiary. It is appropriate to tell someone to chill out when they're needlessly dramatic and aggressive over trivial details. Check your ego at the door.
- naikrovek 4y ago
  - randomdata 4y ago
    > you can't jailbreak "an" Apple, and you can't order "a" McDonald's. Nor can you drive a Ferrari, but people often say such things anyway, especially when they don't know what kind of Ferrari it is that they see being driven where only recognizing the Ferrari branding. This is not uncommon at all. It's only less common when specifics are common knowledge. Most people are familiar with Apple's products, so they can be more specific. Most people are familiar with McDonald's products, so they can be more specific. Most people have absolutely no idea what John Deere does beyond some fuzzy notion of "farm equipment manufacturer". In hospitality, "I'll order a Local Craft Beer Co." is something I hear quite often, where the individual beers made by 'Local Craft Beer Co.' don't have wide recognition. This is functionally the same as your McDonalds example.
  - waste_monk 4y ago
    >you can't jailbreak "an" Apple You can, because any fluent English speaker will understand that you are referring to some type of mobile phone or tablet device manufactured by Apple (which implicitly excludes Macbook, iMac, etc. devices that do not need to be jailbroken). It is not necessary to specify exact model numbers and so on. Keep in mind the source material was a tweet and not a media release or technical documentation where that level of detail would be appropriate. The use of colloquialisms is fine in casual communication. > and you can't order "a" McDonald's. Because no one would say "I'm going to order a McDonald's" without specifying some particular item. But if you are ordering McDonald's in general you would drop the "a", e.g. if you were with a group of people you might say "I'm ordering McDonald's, does anyone want anything?", you wouldn't say "I'm ordering a McDonald's cheeseburger, does anyone want anything?" as it is far more clumsy and the other people involved will neither care or need to know about what you are ordering for yourself. Out of curiosity, is English an acquired language for you? I have seen ESL speakers with similar problems when informal / day-to-day use of the language differs from the more formal version they were taught.
    - naikrovek 4y ago
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't break the site guidelines yourself, regardless of what another commenter is doing or you feel they are. It only makes the thread worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - waste_monk 4y ago
    My apologies. I appreciate the effort that goes into moderating this place and making it such a pleasant community, and I'm sorry to have caused you extra work.
jjeaff 4y ago
It sounds like you want more detail. That is different than claiming that the author doesn't know proper English. To reiterate what the other poster said, referring to a tractor as a John Deere is perfectly valid coloquial English. You wouldn't refer to an iphone as an Apple because Apple is generally known to produce several different categories of products. John Deere is broadly understood to only make tractors. Also, the article "a" in front of "a John Deere" is an additional clue that we are talking about a product, not the company. If you find that hard to understand, you might want to avoid casting aspersions about other people's English skills.
- randomdata 4y ago
  > John Deere is broadly understood to only make tractors. It is not a tractor that is jailbroken here, though; not even a computer built into a tractor. It is their "Universal Display" that has been jailbroken, which is a computer that is sold as an independent unit. Often you will move these displays between machines and, in some cases, even use them in tractors built by other manufacturers or even away from farm machines entirely. For all intents and purposes it is a different category of product. > You wouldn't refer to an iphone as an Apple because Apple is generally known to produce several different categories of products. I expect the real difference here is that the iPhone is a household name. Most know what an iPhone is and are able to recognize one when they see it. It would absolutely get called "an Apple" if that is all that was known about the device. In fact, I know some not-so-technically-engaged people who do call their iPhone "an Apple", reflecting the branding visible on their device. Apple removed the iPhone logo several iterations ago. How many are familiar with the 4640 Universal Display? Approaching nobody, I expect. Especially when at a tech conference and not a farm show. The device is branded with "John Deere" and no other visible markings, so it is understandable that it was called that in the absence of additional information.
  - naikrovek 4y ago
    > so it is understandable that it was called that in the absence of additional information no it isn't; the attackers have that information and could have looked it up if they didn't. "John Deere" is three things: a company, a brand/trademark of that company, and a dead person whom the company and trademark are named after. none of those things can be jailbroken. all I am trying to say is that "jailbroken a John Deere" makes zero sense on its own, and doesn't convey any useful information on its own. THATS ALL IM TRYING TO SAY

dang 4y ago

Please omit swipes like "Chill." from your posts on HN. They just lead to more flamewar. Your comment would be just fine without that bit. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html