5 ms·

I think the point is that you (or most people) will replace the entire unit because it's beyond warranty, stops functioning correctly, and a soldered (probably

I think the point is that you (or most people) will replace the entire unit because it's beyond warranty, stops functioning correctly, and a soldered (probably special) battery would be difficult to replace.

eru 4y ago
Yes, a soldered or special battery would be (weak) evidence of the tactic of planned obsolescence. A standard battery that you can just pop in and out, would not be.
midoridensha 4y ago
There's no such thing as a special battery. No manufacturer is going to have some kind of custom battery manufactured just for one part; they always come in standard sizes and voltages. At the very worst, you could hack in a similar-sized battery with the right voltage.
- eru 4y ago
  The question is how much hacking would be required.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    Probably not much, but that's still far more than the average consumer is willing or able to do.
- eloisius 4y ago
  There are batteries special enough that I can't pick one up at Walmart, and for the general public that may render the device kaput. I didn't say it's an unhackable design.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >There are batteries special enough that I can't pick one up at Walmart You can't pick up a standard 18650 battery at Walmart either, but that doesn't make it some kind of special battery. It's bog-standard. Availability at Walmart has nothing to do with something is standard or even common. Brake pads for some random mass-market 2015 model year car (GM, Toyota, etc.) are nothing special or difficult to find either, but you're not going to find them at Walmart.
- fomine3 4y ago
  But perhaps BMS expect specific battery product. I don't want to take risk by replacing to random Li-ion that not matching original BMS.
- ornornor 4y ago
  My bicycle light begs to differ. It’s a standard 18650 cell with a protection PCB slapped on top, and both poles on the same end of the battery. This is exotic enough that replacements are very hard to find. I can either get the 2 cells needed from the manufacturer at about 70% the cost of a new light, or get a new light. It’s technically repairable/user serviceable, it’s just not practical to do. Apple is playing a similar trick with their 80lbs iPhone repair kit to change the battery yourself: technically user repairable, practically not.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >My bicycle light begs to differ. It’s a standard 18650 cell with a protection PCB slapped on top, and both poles on the same end of the battery. Huh? You seem to be contradicting yourself: you say it's a standard 18650 cell. That's not something custom, that's something you can buy from an electronics supplier quite easily. And no, having both poles on the same end isn't something custom either, that's just a variant you can buy. You should be able to find this exact part on digikey.com. >This is exotic enough that replacements are very hard to find. If you can buy something on digikey.com, it's not "exotic". They even ship small orders by USPS for cheap. It might be "exotic" to a typical consumer, but those people don't know how to use a soldering iron.
    - eloisius 4y ago
      This entire thread is people talking about planned obsolescence for _consumer_ devices and you keep making the same rebuttals. Typical home owners who buy a thermostat at Home Depot or cyclists who buy a tail light at a bike shop are unlikely to even know what digikey is, let alone order a replacement (especially if you have to buy in bulk) and do their own soldering to replace it if it's soldered in. We all know the typical HN reader thinks a fun weekend would be spending 6 hours researching part numbers and getting out the soldering iron, but we are atypical. Most people will assume their product is at the end of its life because the warranty has lapsed and it doesn't work anymore. Companies are apparently betting on that and it's an environmental travesty.
      - 4y ago

eru 4y ago

Yes, a soldered or special battery would be (weak) evidence of the tactic of planned obsolescence. A standard battery that you can just pop in and out, would not be.

midoridensha 4y ago

There's no such thing as a special battery. No manufacturer is going to have some kind of custom battery manufactured just for one part; they always come in standard sizes and voltages. At the very worst, you could hack in a similar-sized battery with the right voltage.

eru 4y ago
The question is how much hacking would be required.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  Probably not much, but that's still far more than the average consumer is willing or able to do.
eloisius 4y ago
There are batteries special enough that I can't pick one up at Walmart, and for the general public that may render the device kaput. I didn't say it's an unhackable design.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >There are batteries special enough that I can't pick one up at Walmart You can't pick up a standard 18650 battery at Walmart either, but that doesn't make it some kind of special battery. It's bog-standard. Availability at Walmart has nothing to do with something is standard or even common. Brake pads for some random mass-market 2015 model year car (GM, Toyota, etc.) are nothing special or difficult to find either, but you're not going to find them at Walmart.
fomine3 4y ago
But perhaps BMS expect specific battery product. I don't want to take risk by replacing to random Li-ion that not matching original BMS.
ornornor 4y ago
My bicycle light begs to differ. It’s a standard 18650 cell with a protection PCB slapped on top, and both poles on the same end of the battery. This is exotic enough that replacements are very hard to find. I can either get the 2 cells needed from the manufacturer at about 70% the cost of a new light, or get a new light. It’s technically repairable/user serviceable, it’s just not practical to do. Apple is playing a similar trick with their 80lbs iPhone repair kit to change the battery yourself: technically user repairable, practically not.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >My bicycle light begs to differ. It’s a standard 18650 cell with a protection PCB slapped on top, and both poles on the same end of the battery. Huh? You seem to be contradicting yourself: you say it's a standard 18650 cell. That's not something custom, that's something you can buy from an electronics supplier quite easily. And no, having both poles on the same end isn't something custom either, that's just a variant you can buy. You should be able to find this exact part on digikey.com. >This is exotic enough that replacements are very hard to find. If you can buy something on digikey.com, it's not "exotic". They even ship small orders by USPS for cheap. It might be "exotic" to a typical consumer, but those people don't know how to use a soldering iron.
  - eloisius 4y ago
    This entire thread is people talking about planned obsolescence for _consumer_ devices and you keep making the same rebuttals. Typical home owners who buy a thermostat at Home Depot or cyclists who buy a tail light at a bike shop are unlikely to even know what digikey is, let alone order a replacement (especially if you have to buy in bulk) and do their own soldering to replace it if it's soldered in. We all know the typical HN reader thinks a fun weekend would be spending 6 hours researching part numbers and getting out the soldering iron, but we are atypical. Most people will assume their product is at the end of its life because the warranty has lapsed and it doesn't work anymore. Companies are apparently betting on that and it's an environmental travesty.
    - 4y ago