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Sounds great, but Consumer Reports definitely has a checkered past. Read about the Suzuki Samurai debacle, in which they methodically manipulated their tests (s

Sounds great, but Consumer Reports definitely has a checkered past. Read about the Suzuki Samurai debacle, in which they methodically manipulated their tests (strictly for that vehicle, and not any of the others in its class that they were simultaneously evaluating), with the goal of destroying the vehicle's reputation. https://www.aim.org/aim-report/aim-report-a-black-eye-for-consumer-reports/ https://www.aim.org/aim-report/aim-report-a-black-eye-for-co...

Spooky23 4y ago
I think Consumer Reports has an opinionated editorial voice. But I think that’s inevitable in that line of work. SUVs evolved to address the risks pointed out by CR and other entities. They mostly have wider wheelbases and lower centers of gravity.
crotchrocketeer 4y ago
Well, at least this wasn’t in the “pretend it’s better direction” so it’s a at least still reliable in helping pick good quality.
- alamortsubite 4y ago
  Not if you were trying to decide between the Samurai and the other vehicles CR was "evaluating" (a Wrangler and the Bronco II). Internally, CR's testers praised the Samurai as having the best handling of the bunch, but their editor made sure the public never heard this.
  - delusional 4y ago
    What are you talking about? The original review literally mentioned: "Under the touch of our drivers, all four utility vehicles got through the course at 52 mph or better. The Suzuki Samurai was actually more maneuverable than the others, since it's so much smaller and lighter" Tell me again how it was some cover up. They literally published your argument along with the review.
hn_go_brrrrr 4y ago
I hadn't heard about this, thanks for the link. I did a little digging and it doesn't appear be quite as clean cut as that article says. For instance, check out https://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19970422/press001971.html https://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19970422/pres... (a CR press release), where they mention internal Suzuki documents acknowledging the rollover issue.
- alamortsubite 4y ago
  I've read the text of the lawsuit. As you mention, this is a press release, so I'm highly skeptical of it. Video documentation of CR's manipulation of the tests is on YouTube. It's wild stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Bv9WL3vpY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Bv9WL3vpY
  - hn_go_brrrrr 4y ago
    Best guess? CR fabricated their test results because they couldn't figure out how to replicate the real-life problems on their test course. Which is to say, both sides are in the wrong.
    - delusional 4y ago
      Every review site "fabricates their test reults" thats the whole point. You create a test that documents your assistent. The ruling on an appeal makes the argument better than i could. > [The] først theory is that CU know it was probably lying because its employees tries to make the samurai flip and we're happy when they suceeded. The second is that CU purposely avoided the truth by failing to address a potential source of experimental error. Neither of these theories withstands serious scrutiny The opinion end up concluding that the entire reason for changing the test setup, along with a description of the changes, was present in the article. What a non-story.
mapt 4y ago
I'm not sure what the point is of linking to a reference that also features pieces titled: 'The media lied to you about COVID-19 – TAKE ACTION NOW' 'Critical Race Theory in schools, take action now!' 'Gender activists are politicizing the dictionary: TAKE ACTION NOW' 'Stand up for Rush – TAKE ACTION NOW' 'VOX buries the truth' 'CNN admits Hunter Biden ‘a real problem’ for Joe Biden, not ‘a right-wing media story’' https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Accuracy_in_Media https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Accuracy_in_Media I am less confident about either your contention or about the position you are attacking than about the idea that this particular website is going to lie to me about it.
- switchbak 4y ago
  I'm still not sure why I'm standing up for Rush, I don't even like the band, but I took action. Immediately!
- midoridensha 4y ago
  Why does anyone need to stand up for Rush? It was a great band and not really controversial, plus they disbanded years ago because the drummer died. They don't exist any more, just like Led Zeppelin no longer really exists (also because the drummer died, coincidentally).
  - dreamcompiler 4y ago
    Spock: Captain we need to send down a landing party to investigate the radiation leak. Kirk: Send some red shirts. Spock: They're all in Agile training today. Kirk: Do we have any rock drummers?
  - philwelch 4y ago
    It was ridiculous how long it took for them to be enshrined in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but that finally happened a few years back.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a complete joke, and has nothing to do with real Rock and Roll music. They regularly induct musicians and performers who have absolutely nothing to do with Rock. It's best to just ignore the whole institution.

Spooky23 4y ago

I think Consumer Reports has an opinionated editorial voice. But I think that’s inevitable in that line of work. SUVs evolved to address the risks pointed out by CR and other entities. They mostly have wider wheelbases and lower centers of gravity.

crotchrocketeer 4y ago

Well, at least this wasn’t in the “pretend it’s better direction” so it’s a at least still reliable in helping pick good quality.

alamortsubite 4y ago
Not if you were trying to decide between the Samurai and the other vehicles CR was "evaluating" (a Wrangler and the Bronco II). Internally, CR's testers praised the Samurai as having the best handling of the bunch, but their editor made sure the public never heard this.
- delusional 4y ago
  What are you talking about? The original review literally mentioned: "Under the touch of our drivers, all four utility vehicles got through the course at 52 mph or better. The Suzuki Samurai was actually more maneuverable than the others, since it's so much smaller and lighter" Tell me again how it was some cover up. They literally published your argument along with the review.

hn_go_brrrrr 4y ago

I hadn't heard about this, thanks for the link. I did a little digging and it doesn't appear be quite as clean cut as that article says. For instance, check out https://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19970422/press001971.html https://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19970422/pres... (a CR press release), where they mention internal Suzuki documents acknowledging the rollover issue.

alamortsubite 4y ago
I've read the text of the lawsuit. As you mention, this is a press release, so I'm highly skeptical of it. Video documentation of CR's manipulation of the tests is on YouTube. It's wild stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Bv9WL3vpY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Bv9WL3vpY
- hn_go_brrrrr 4y ago
  Best guess? CR fabricated their test results because they couldn't figure out how to replicate the real-life problems on their test course. Which is to say, both sides are in the wrong.
  - delusional 4y ago
    Every review site "fabricates their test reults" thats the whole point. You create a test that documents your assistent. The ruling on an appeal makes the argument better than i could. > [The] først theory is that CU know it was probably lying because its employees tries to make the samurai flip and we're happy when they suceeded. The second is that CU purposely avoided the truth by failing to address a potential source of experimental error. Neither of these theories withstands serious scrutiny The opinion end up concluding that the entire reason for changing the test setup, along with a description of the changes, was present in the article. What a non-story.

mapt 4y ago

I'm not sure what the point is of linking to a reference that also features pieces titled: 'The media lied to you about COVID-19 – TAKE ACTION NOW' 'Critical Race Theory in schools, take action now!' 'Gender activists are politicizing the dictionary: TAKE ACTION NOW' 'Stand up for Rush – TAKE ACTION NOW' 'VOX buries the truth' 'CNN admits Hunter Biden ‘a real problem’ for Joe Biden, not ‘a right-wing media story’' https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Accuracy_in_Media https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Accuracy_in_Media I am less confident about either your contention or about the position you are attacking than about the idea that this particular website is going to lie to me about it.

switchbak 4y ago
I'm still not sure why I'm standing up for Rush, I don't even like the band, but I took action. Immediately!
midoridensha 4y ago
Why does anyone need to stand up for Rush? It was a great band and not really controversial, plus they disbanded years ago because the drummer died. They don't exist any more, just like Led Zeppelin no longer really exists (also because the drummer died, coincidentally).
- dreamcompiler 4y ago
  Spock: Captain we need to send down a landing party to investigate the radiation leak. Kirk: Send some red shirts. Spock: They're all in Agile training today. Kirk: Do we have any rock drummers?
- philwelch 4y ago
  It was ridiculous how long it took for them to be enshrined in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but that finally happened a few years back.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a complete joke, and has nothing to do with real Rock and Roll music. They regularly induct musicians and performers who have absolutely nothing to do with Rock. It's best to just ignore the whole institution.