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What am I missing? This is easy. You're a bartender with a recipe you want to keep a secret, so you put black paper over the bottles so people can't see what t

What am I missing? This is easy. You're a bartender with a recipe you want to keep a secret, so you put black paper over the bottles so people can't see what they are. Or you keep the ingredients somewhere the customers can't see, and mix it there. Plus give it a one-off name, like "Freddie's Secret Likker" and copyright that. If you want it to be a trade secret like Coca-Cola, you have some manufacturer make an ingredient just for you, and keep their identity secret. Also buy all their output and swear them to secrecy.

golergka 4y ago
> What am I missing? This is easy. I'm curious. How often do you go out to the fancy cocktail bars ($20+ per drink)?
chrisseaton 4y ago
> keep the ingredients somewhere the customers can't see How do Coca-Cola get around having to list all ingredients when they sell a bottled product? They just list 'flavourings' don't they - what if you're allergic to one of the anonymous ingredients? Are they just not allergens? I guess a cocktail bar also has extra protection in that I think non-retail food and drinks don't have to list ingredients anyway.
- xhevahir 4y ago
  > How do Coca-Cola get around having to list all ingredients when they sell a bottled product? Lobbying, I guess? Regulatory capture?
- elmepo 4y ago
  I believe the real answer is that they probably do list all the ingredients on the label, because the reason why Coke makes so much money only is only partially because of the ingredients. The real secret is the exact weights of ingredients, production methods, and branding. In fact if my memory serves me correctly, an insider did in fact offer to sell the secret formula to Pepsi, who promptly reported it to Coke. After all, even if Pepsi did get the exact formula and reproduced it - they don't sell Coke, they sell Pepsi, and their market (presumably) prefers the taste of Pepsi to Coke, so changing the taste doesn't make much sense.
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    Incorrect go look at a label.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > they probably do list all the ingredients on the label I mean look at the label and you can see this isn’t the case.
- Cayde-6 4y ago
  Certain ingredients can be listed as a "collective". See section (b) of FDA: CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=101.4 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfr...
- SECProto 4y ago
  > How do Coca-Cola get around having to list all ingredients when they sell a bottled product? They just list 'flavourings' don't they Per the FDA[1], "some ingredients can be listed collectively as "flavors," "spices," "artificial flavoring," or in the case of color additives exempt from certification, "artificial colors", without naming each one. Declaration of an allergenic ingredient in a collective or single color, flavor, or spice could be accomplished by simply naming the allergenic ingredient in the ingredient list." > what if you're allergic to one of the anonymous ingredients? Are they just not allergens? Basically the only regulated allergens in the US are[2] milk, eggs, fish, Crustacean shellfish, tree nuts, peanuts, wheat, and soybeans [1] https://www.fda.gov/food/food-ingredients-packaging/overview-food-ingredients-additives-colors#qalabel https://www.fda.gov/food/food-ingredients-packaging/overview... [2] https://www.fda.gov/food/food-allergensgluten-free-guidance-documents-regulatory-information/food-allergen-labeling-and-consumer-protection-act-2004-falcpa https://www.fda.gov/food/food-allergensgluten-free-guidance-...
- Cupertino95014 4y ago
  There was an answer on Quora about this. You could look it up, but from memory: There's one ingredient (I think it's cola syrup but I could be wrong) which you can only get from one supplier, and Coke buys all of it.
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    Coca Cola is the only authorized importer of the Coca leaf to USA. They have it shipped to New Jersey where it is decocainized. Coca-Cola gets their coca leaf flavoring, and the cocaine is distributed for medical use. (the cola half is the kola nut for caffeine)
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> Plus give it a one-off name, like "Freddie's Secret Likker" and copyright that. Trademark, I think.
- Cupertino95014 4y ago
  right, sorry.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    Nothing to apologize for:)
- pjscott 4y ago
  Yep. But if it were me I would forget about the trademark and just make sure that everyone who is In The Know is aware that I am Freddie, the Likker is mine, and I haven’t told anybody else the Secret of its manufacture. What could possibly bring me more hipster cred? What could get more people to make pilgrimages to Freddie’s Bar?
smt88 4y ago
It's not very difficult to reverse-engineer most cocktails that have 3-4 ingredients in them, especially if any of the ingredients are visible as a garnish (e.g. herbs, citrus slices). And even then, an inquisitive patron would be able to get the ingredient list by asking questions and/or claiming to have allergies. It would be strange and potentially dangerous for the bartender to without knowledge of the ingredients. The bottom line is that anyone who really wants to steal a cocktail recipe is going to be able to.
jnwatson 4y ago
You only have to do that for one ingredient. You make a spice/liquor concoction, put it in a random bottle, and you’re good.
- parshimers 4y ago
  This is the exact method by which many classic Tiki cocktails were kept secret and therefore nearly lost to time. For example the original recipe for the Zombie is disguised twice. It uses “Don’s Mix”, which is made with grapefruit juice and “Spices #4”. It took a very dedicated historian, Beachbum Berry, to track down the real recipe: https://beachbumberry.com/recipe-zombie.html https://beachbumberry.com/recipe-zombie.html
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    what a cool website, thanks for that

golergka 4y ago

> What am I missing? This is easy. I'm curious. How often do you go out to the fancy cocktail bars ($20+ per drink)?

chrisseaton 4y ago

> keep the ingredients somewhere the customers can't see How do Coca-Cola get around having to list all ingredients when they sell a bottled product? They just list 'flavourings' don't they - what if you're allergic to one of the anonymous ingredients? Are they just not allergens? I guess a cocktail bar also has extra protection in that I think non-retail food and drinks don't have to list ingredients anyway.

xhevahir 4y ago
> How do Coca-Cola get around having to list all ingredients when they sell a bottled product? Lobbying, I guess? Regulatory capture?
elmepo 4y ago
I believe the real answer is that they probably do list all the ingredients on the label, because the reason why Coke makes so much money only is only partially because of the ingredients. The real secret is the exact weights of ingredients, production methods, and branding. In fact if my memory serves me correctly, an insider did in fact offer to sell the secret formula to Pepsi, who promptly reported it to Coke. After all, even if Pepsi did get the exact formula and reproduced it - they don't sell Coke, they sell Pepsi, and their market (presumably) prefers the taste of Pepsi to Coke, so changing the taste doesn't make much sense.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  Incorrect go look at a label.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > they probably do list all the ingredients on the label I mean look at the label and you can see this isn’t the case.
Cayde-6 4y ago
Certain ingredients can be listed as a "collective". See section (b) of FDA: CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=101.4 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfr...
SECProto 4y ago
> How do Coca-Cola get around having to list all ingredients when they sell a bottled product? They just list 'flavourings' don't they Per the FDA[1], "some ingredients can be listed collectively as "flavors," "spices," "artificial flavoring," or in the case of color additives exempt from certification, "artificial colors", without naming each one. Declaration of an allergenic ingredient in a collective or single color, flavor, or spice could be accomplished by simply naming the allergenic ingredient in the ingredient list." > what if you're allergic to one of the anonymous ingredients? Are they just not allergens? Basically the only regulated allergens in the US are[2] milk, eggs, fish, Crustacean shellfish, tree nuts, peanuts, wheat, and soybeans [1] https://www.fda.gov/food/food-ingredients-packaging/overview-food-ingredients-additives-colors#qalabel https://www.fda.gov/food/food-ingredients-packaging/overview... [2] https://www.fda.gov/food/food-allergensgluten-free-guidance-documents-regulatory-information/food-allergen-labeling-and-consumer-protection-act-2004-falcpa https://www.fda.gov/food/food-allergensgluten-free-guidance-...
Cupertino95014 4y ago
There was an answer on Quora about this. You could look it up, but from memory: There's one ingredient (I think it's cola syrup but I could be wrong) which you can only get from one supplier, and Coke buys all of it.
- jazzyjackson 4y ago
  Coca Cola is the only authorized importer of the Coca leaf to USA. They have it shipped to New Jersey where it is decocainized. Coca-Cola gets their coca leaf flavoring, and the cocaine is distributed for medical use. (the cola half is the kola nut for caffeine)

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

> Plus give it a one-off name, like "Freddie's Secret Likker" and copyright that. Trademark, I think.

Cupertino95014 4y ago
right, sorry.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  Nothing to apologize for:)
pjscott 4y ago
Yep. But if it were me I would forget about the trademark and just make sure that everyone who is In The Know is aware that I am Freddie, the Likker is mine, and I haven’t told anybody else the Secret of its manufacture. What could possibly bring me more hipster cred? What could get more people to make pilgrimages to Freddie’s Bar?

smt88 4y ago

It's not very difficult to reverse-engineer most cocktails that have 3-4 ingredients in them, especially if any of the ingredients are visible as a garnish (e.g. herbs, citrus slices). And even then, an inquisitive patron would be able to get the ingredient list by asking questions and/or claiming to have allergies. It would be strange and potentially dangerous for the bartender to without knowledge of the ingredients. The bottom line is that anyone who really wants to steal a cocktail recipe is going to be able to.

jnwatson 4y ago

You only have to do that for one ingredient. You make a spice/liquor concoction, put it in a random bottle, and you’re good.

parshimers 4y ago
This is the exact method by which many classic Tiki cocktails were kept secret and therefore nearly lost to time. For example the original recipe for the Zombie is disguised twice. It uses “Don’s Mix”, which is made with grapefruit juice and “Spices #4”. It took a very dedicated historian, Beachbum Berry, to track down the real recipe: https://beachbumberry.com/recipe-zombie.html https://beachbumberry.com/recipe-zombie.html
- jazzyjackson 4y ago
  what a cool website, thanks for that