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I spend a lot of time outdoors / hillwalking / mountain climbing in Scotland and it is quite fustrating and in my opinion quite dangerous how technophobic the s

I spend a lot of time outdoors / hillwalking / mountain climbing in Scotland and it is quite fustrating and in my opinion quite dangerous how technophobic the standard advice given is. Almost universally guides and mountain rescue people will advise that people should carry and have knowledge of how to use a map and compass, inform that a phone with GPS is to be used as a backup with no advice given on how to use it. Navigating with a map and compass is a difficult skill that takes a lot of practise, Scottish munros are very regularly subject to almost zero visibility where even the most advanced navigator would have difficulty. Almost none of the receipients of this advice actually want to navigate, they want to be able to follow a route for duration of their journey. A task that is very simply done with a phone if someone has been given the correct instruction. When people have an appropriate route downloaded on their phone to work offline ensuring they have enough charge and suitable backup devices alongside told someone their route and expected time of return they have covered most of the situations that get people in trouble in terms of navigation. Instead they are routinely told to bring a map and compass by people who generally seem to be enthusiastic volunteers who have a deep interest specifically around navigation.

ghaff 4y ago
I dunno. >and suitable backup devices First of all, I wonder how many people actually have suitable backup devices. Secondly, stuff does happen. There are a lot of circumstances where a very simple compass and map--and knowledge that doesn't require elite M&C navigation skills can be the difference between "Um, I have no idea where I am and how to get home" and "Damn, I guess I need to do this the old fashioned way." Yes, there are conditions and locations where the "old fashioned way" is really difficult to do. But often there are trails and some visibility and you just need some basic ability to read a map and know what direction you're headed in. Do I bother when I know an area and the weather is good? Nope. But for anything more advanced, I carry a map and compass as pretty cheap and easy insurance.
- daleharvey 4y ago
  > First of all, I wonder how many people actually have suitable backup devices. Virtually every group of people will have multiple backup devices, for people going solo it something that should (but isn't) recommended. > Secondly, stuff does happen. Stuff does and in every case if you want to follow a route having a little dot that shows you exactly where you are in relation to that route is better than having a map and compass. I am not sure why you are replying to my point as if it is not a choice for people to carry a phone with them but somewhat makes the point. A properly prepared phone is a map and compass, it does everything a map and compass can do and then adds an extra useful feature of "and this is exactly where you are"
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I often hike by myself and, in general, try not to depend on other people having things unless pre-arranged. I certainly use phone apps--including the Ordinance Survey app in the UK, which is very good. But if I'm hiking in an unfamiliar area, yes, I also do carry a map and compass because that seems like a low cost and effort backup. I'm absolutely not arguing against using a smartphone app as primary navigation. But I do also encourage having backup.
    - daleharvey 4y ago
      Yeh I often go solo and after a few experiences, particularly if its unfamiliar, I try to make sure to have a charged backup device with routes etc loaded. Similiarly I am not arguing against people using a map and compass, but I think the current advice which is entirely focused on map and compass with little guidance for phone users (which if it exists, is always caveated) has a lot more to do with outdoors peoples notions of technological purity and less to do with public health
      - ghaff 4y ago
        I think we're actually in mostly violent agreement, The ten essentials or whatever you want to call them are probably rather outdated. I still think throwing a map and compass in your pack and having at least a bare minimum knowledge of how to use them is useful insurance in an unfamiliar area. But understanding mostly simple processes/backups for GPS is quite important as well. Details vary by circumstance/weather/etc. but simple steps in terms of downloading maps/having backup chargers/even a backup device/etc. are useful and I don't think have generally made it into basic hiking safety advice. It's really hard at this point to credibly argue that "the ten essentials" don't include a smartphone.
mro_name 4y ago
> route downloaded on their phone to work offline I do it all the time and never met anybody else do it. Rather everybody happily relies on online maps. Do you think widespread offline use is the case? I agree that to most map and compass are rather useless, but still slightly more useful compared to a phone with drained battery or no network coverage.
- ghaff 4y ago
  >I do it all the time and never met anybody else do it. Rather everybody happily relies on online maps. That's a good example of one way to reduce a pretty common failure mode.Lack of cell phone service is probably a lot more common than a dead phone especially if you carry a backup external battery. (Outside of extreme conditions but that's a separate matter.)
- daleharvey 4y ago
  Specifically for Munros which is what I do network coverage can be pretty bad and at least a few people I have talked to have done the same as me and got caught out depending on the internet then in future downloaded the route. The main website everyone uses here has a .gpx for every walk (https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/fortwilliam/buachailleetivemor.shtml https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/fortwilliam/buachailleetivem... for example) I think drained batteries and no network coverages are problems that can and should be addressed by advising people properly. Instead I think some people end up over prepared and most people go in with a map and a compass but still completely underprepared.
- acidburnNSA 4y ago
  Somewhat related, I've started using osmand+ for offline maps and track recording and it is truly awesome. On fdroid too. https://osmand.net/ https://osmand.net/
  - mro_name 4y ago
    for iOS I like MapOut quite a bit. https://mapout.app/ https://mapout.app/
jltsiren 4y ago
> Navigating with a map and compass is a difficult skill that takes a lot of practise That's a serious exaggeration. Navigating with a map and compass was taught to 10-year-old kids in elementary school when I was that age, and then it was practiced a few times every year. Probably to ensure that men didn't waste too much time learning basic skills in mandatory military service.
- daleharvey 4y ago
  I wasn't talking about how to orient a map, I was speaking about traversing mountains where being metres off route is potentially fatal with little to no visibility. Saying that is difficult is not exagerating.
  - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
    that seems like it's outside of the scope of "extremely incapable hikers who just want to go 1 route from A to B with no danger" unless there's a super chill trail or something
  - throw827474737 4y ago
    And there you would tell the average joe: Use GPS and you can do it!! Please not!??
- withinboredom 4y ago
  Def learned this skill in the army. Still count my steps as a habit. I can tell you how many kilometers I walk, and it is usually almost what my watch says I walked. I’m still not sure which one is more correct.
- lmc 4y ago
  > That's a serious exaggeration. It really isn't. I did all that as a kid and still get hopelessly lost. Source: Experienced hiker, backpacker and mountain runner, over several continents.
  - haswell 4y ago
manicdee 4y ago
What is the distinction between following a route and navigating?
- withinboredom 4y ago
  Navigating is looking and matching up landmarks to a map to identify your current position, and then determining the route you will follow. (Orientation) From there, you use a compass to follow that route, counting your steps. You have to know how many steps it takes you to walk a km/mile, then you can reorient every so often to adjust your route based on your real position. Just following a route is easy, in comparison.
- qbasic_forever 4y ago
  Following a trail means you have some reference of a foot path to stay on and follow. Navigating could mean anything--it might be reading a vague description like "follow the trail to a cairn at mile 5, then bushwhack up hill 1500 vertical feet to a ridge, follow the ridge as it ascends the mountain choosing an obvious class 3 scramble on the east side that avoids serious exposure (if you encounter class 5 terrain you are off route)". With navigation you have to use a lot more senses and tools and knowledge, the path isn't immediately obvious.
atwood22 4y ago
If you’re lost in the woods you’re not orienteering. You’ll know your general location and you can see things on the maps like rivers relative to where you think you are. “If I walk west from here, I’ll hit a river and then I can follow that river to town.” It’s not that complicated unless you’re hopelessly lost.
- Enginerrrd 4y ago
  Yeah I think that is the big conceptual failure of beginners: inability to scale their perception, and "think big" when navigating. You can still get a little lost if you happen to find a road that's not on the map on your way to the road that is or something of the sort, but usually it's pretty obvious.
  - DoingIsLearning 4y ago
    > inability to scale their perception, and "think big" when navigating. This indeed, when navigating a city I always found that I understood 'distances'. When navigating in nature I tend to really overestimate how much ground I have covered. You are usually moving at snail speed on the typical scale of a topo map. Getting some intuition on distance covered per unit of time is in my view the missing skill to have when orientering. You need to have a good estimate of casual hike velocity and fast hike velocity to better not underestimate distances.
totetsu 4y ago
phones are great untill you drop them on a rock trying to take a photo.
andkenneth 4y ago
I'm sure that the advice from mountain rescue comes from many many instances where they have to save someone who brought no backup, paper or otherwise. Yeah, I'm sure YOU will bring a powerbank, and an extra device or a paper backup, but too many people wouldn't.
anigbrowl 4y ago
'enough charge and adequate backup devices' are very moveable feasts. I'm experienced on field trips and I still screw up or encounter unexpected power issues. If your devices become available or unusable, a map and compass are way more likely to get you home safe. Also, it's not that hard to read a map.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Especially in winter/wet conditions. Yes, maps can blow away or you can simply be in conditions where it's difficult to read them. But there's a lot of casualness in this thread about how "I'll always have my phone" that seems unwise for anything that's not very casual. For the vast majority of situations we're not talking GPS vs. Olympic level orienteering. We're talking about whether you should take trail A or B and whether you're headed approximately N or S.
manytree 4y ago
I’d say it’s both: GPS are great but you should be well practiced in wayfinding with a compass in case the GPS fails. I’ve never taken a GPS on long hikes anyhow seems overkill as long as you have a good topo.
serf 4y ago
>Navigating with a map and compass is a difficult skill that takes a lot of practise, no one seems to realize now-a-days that using devices has that same skill window. my father would be useless with a phone and gps app, but with the right charts and a sextant he can find his way around the sea. in other words : navigating is difficult, and the tools you choose to use, be it GPS and electronics or the sun/compass/sextant require practice regardless.
- daleharvey 4y ago
  Noone realises that because it is clearly not true. There is a huge difference in how hard it is to look at map and figure out where you are with a compass than it is to look and a map and figure out where you are because there is a big dot exactly where you are.
mannykannot 4y ago
I agree in general: I am someone who can and does use map and compass, but I routinely use GPS for convenience and verification (except when orienteering.) In so doing, I have noticed that my phone apps can fail to update to the relevant part of the map in areas of weak signal. Anyone relying on GPS should be familiar enough with their equipment to ensure it has the necessary maps available before departure.
- mateo1 4y ago
  I would like to add something to this. My Android phone refuses to use the GPS only navigation with the default Google Maps app. Even when AGPS is enabled and possible, the almanac downloaded beyond reasonable doubt and my last location known down to a meter. That's just google doing their thing. Expanding, most navigation apps in the name of preserving "user experience" will actively hide when they fail to work. They won't mention that signal is lost and instead they'll dead recon you within the confines of the road or path you were last in. GMaps will go a step further and simply guess where you just turned at a junction... which is extremely confusing when wrong and the main reason I'm no longer using Gmaps for my car. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: do not, under any circumstances, mistake your consumer smartphone with stock navigation apps as a reliable navigation device. Especially when getting lost might cost you your life.
i_am_proteus 4y ago
This for sure is an interesting anecdote, but doesn't seem to directly relate to the contents of the article, which refers to urban driving. Navigating an urban area with named streets doesn't even need a map and compass, just a map is fine, and it is something most people in developed countries did up until about two decades ago when car GPS units began to roll out.
logifail 4y ago
> Navigating with a map and compass is a difficult skill that takes a lot of practise, Scottish munros are very regularly subject to almost zero visibility where even the most advanced navigator would have difficulty. Almost none of the receipients of this advice actually want to navigate, they want to be able to follow a route for duration of their journey. A task that is very simply done with a phone if someone has been given the correct instruction. I've walked in Scotland, including in low cloud/fog/torrential rain, and would suggest that to be following a phone screen's "directions" while walking in almost zero visibility would be foolhardy in the extreme.
- aembleton 4y ago
  > ...to be following a phone screen's "directions" while walking in almost zero visibility would be foolhardy in the extreme. Can you expand on that? I have done this using mapy.cz and AlpineQuest dozens of times in the last ten years. The only exceptions for me has been in sub zero conditions where I want to keep my phone battery warm and on mountain tops, so I take compass bearings from the phone app and follow the bearing. I have found following anything on a phone sketchy on mountain summits in the past because you will have turned around and lost your orientation. A bearing resolves that. All other times though, I find it incredibly useful. Also, I like to use AlpineQuest to track where I have been in a low power way by recording my location once a minute - this helps me to keep a mental picture of where I am on the map should the phone die. I also have a paper map which fortunatelly I've only needed a couple of times when the temperature is too low for the phone.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > Can you expand on that? I have done this using mapy.cz and AlpineQuest dozens of times in the last ten years. I've just pulled up the summit of Snowdon on mapy.cz[0] to find something we can compared with a traditional 1:25000 walking map of the same area, an extract from the OS Explorer map can be found on page 5 of this PDF[1] To my mind, the difference is very striking. If you are stuck in the outdoors in poor visibility, every feature on the map can be useful. mapy.cz gives a good overview of the summit and the routes to and from it, but compared with the OS map there is a lot of detail missing. Not least contour lines! [0] https://en.mapy.cz/zakladni?x=-4.0756102&y=53.0701102&z=17 https://en.mapy.cz/zakladni?x=-4.0756102&y=53.0701102&z=17 [1] https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/documents/resources/map-reading-made-easy.pdf https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/documents/resources/map-rea...
citrin_ru 4y ago
It should not be either a map or a phone (with GSP). One can use map when everything OK to develop/maintain the skill and look at phone when feels lost. Relying on a phone alone is especially problematic in rainy weather - capacitive touch screen doesn't really work when there are rain drops on it.

ghaff 4y ago

I dunno. >and suitable backup devices First of all, I wonder how many people actually have suitable backup devices. Secondly, stuff does happen. There are a lot of circumstances where a very simple compass and map--and knowledge that doesn't require elite M&C navigation skills can be the difference between "Um, I have no idea where I am and how to get home" and "Damn, I guess I need to do this the old fashioned way." Yes, there are conditions and locations where the "old fashioned way" is really difficult to do. But often there are trails and some visibility and you just need some basic ability to read a map and know what direction you're headed in. Do I bother when I know an area and the weather is good? Nope. But for anything more advanced, I carry a map and compass as pretty cheap and easy insurance.

daleharvey 4y ago
> First of all, I wonder how many people actually have suitable backup devices. Virtually every group of people will have multiple backup devices, for people going solo it something that should (but isn't) recommended. > Secondly, stuff does happen. Stuff does and in every case if you want to follow a route having a little dot that shows you exactly where you are in relation to that route is better than having a map and compass. I am not sure why you are replying to my point as if it is not a choice for people to carry a phone with them but somewhat makes the point. A properly prepared phone is a map and compass, it does everything a map and compass can do and then adds an extra useful feature of "and this is exactly where you are"
- ghaff 4y ago
  I often hike by myself and, in general, try not to depend on other people having things unless pre-arranged. I certainly use phone apps--including the Ordinance Survey app in the UK, which is very good. But if I'm hiking in an unfamiliar area, yes, I also do carry a map and compass because that seems like a low cost and effort backup. I'm absolutely not arguing against using a smartphone app as primary navigation. But I do also encourage having backup.
  - daleharvey 4y ago
    Yeh I often go solo and after a few experiences, particularly if its unfamiliar, I try to make sure to have a charged backup device with routes etc loaded. Similiarly I am not arguing against people using a map and compass, but I think the current advice which is entirely focused on map and compass with little guidance for phone users (which if it exists, is always caveated) has a lot more to do with outdoors peoples notions of technological purity and less to do with public health
    - ghaff 4y ago
      I think we're actually in mostly violent agreement, The ten essentials or whatever you want to call them are probably rather outdated. I still think throwing a map and compass in your pack and having at least a bare minimum knowledge of how to use them is useful insurance in an unfamiliar area. But understanding mostly simple processes/backups for GPS is quite important as well. Details vary by circumstance/weather/etc. but simple steps in terms of downloading maps/having backup chargers/even a backup device/etc. are useful and I don't think have generally made it into basic hiking safety advice. It's really hard at this point to credibly argue that "the ten essentials" don't include a smartphone.

mro_name 4y ago

> route downloaded on their phone to work offline I do it all the time and never met anybody else do it. Rather everybody happily relies on online maps. Do you think widespread offline use is the case? I agree that to most map and compass are rather useless, but still slightly more useful compared to a phone with drained battery or no network coverage.

ghaff 4y ago
>I do it all the time and never met anybody else do it. Rather everybody happily relies on online maps. That's a good example of one way to reduce a pretty common failure mode.Lack of cell phone service is probably a lot more common than a dead phone especially if you carry a backup external battery. (Outside of extreme conditions but that's a separate matter.)
daleharvey 4y ago
Specifically for Munros which is what I do network coverage can be pretty bad and at least a few people I have talked to have done the same as me and got caught out depending on the internet then in future downloaded the route. The main website everyone uses here has a .gpx for every walk (https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/fortwilliam/buachailleetivemor.shtml https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/fortwilliam/buachailleetivem... for example) I think drained batteries and no network coverages are problems that can and should be addressed by advising people properly. Instead I think some people end up over prepared and most people go in with a map and a compass but still completely underprepared.
acidburnNSA 4y ago
Somewhat related, I've started using osmand+ for offline maps and track recording and it is truly awesome. On fdroid too. https://osmand.net/ https://osmand.net/
- mro_name 4y ago
  for iOS I like MapOut quite a bit. https://mapout.app/ https://mapout.app/

jltsiren 4y ago

> Navigating with a map and compass is a difficult skill that takes a lot of practise That's a serious exaggeration. Navigating with a map and compass was taught to 10-year-old kids in elementary school when I was that age, and then it was practiced a few times every year. Probably to ensure that men didn't waste too much time learning basic skills in mandatory military service.

daleharvey 4y ago
I wasn't talking about how to orient a map, I was speaking about traversing mountains where being metres off route is potentially fatal with little to no visibility. Saying that is difficult is not exagerating.
- ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
  that seems like it's outside of the scope of "extremely incapable hikers who just want to go 1 route from A to B with no danger" unless there's a super chill trail or something
- throw827474737 4y ago
  And there you would tell the average joe: Use GPS and you can do it!! Please not!??
withinboredom 4y ago
Def learned this skill in the army. Still count my steps as a habit. I can tell you how many kilometers I walk, and it is usually almost what my watch says I walked. I’m still not sure which one is more correct.
lmc 4y ago
> That's a serious exaggeration. It really isn't. I did all that as a kid and still get hopelessly lost. Source: Experienced hiker, backpacker and mountain runner, over several continents.
- haswell 4y ago

manicdee 4y ago

What is the distinction between following a route and navigating?

withinboredom 4y ago
Navigating is looking and matching up landmarks to a map to identify your current position, and then determining the route you will follow. (Orientation) From there, you use a compass to follow that route, counting your steps. You have to know how many steps it takes you to walk a km/mile, then you can reorient every so often to adjust your route based on your real position. Just following a route is easy, in comparison.
qbasic_forever 4y ago
Following a trail means you have some reference of a foot path to stay on and follow. Navigating could mean anything--it might be reading a vague description like "follow the trail to a cairn at mile 5, then bushwhack up hill 1500 vertical feet to a ridge, follow the ridge as it ascends the mountain choosing an obvious class 3 scramble on the east side that avoids serious exposure (if you encounter class 5 terrain you are off route)". With navigation you have to use a lot more senses and tools and knowledge, the path isn't immediately obvious.

atwood22 4y ago

If you’re lost in the woods you’re not orienteering. You’ll know your general location and you can see things on the maps like rivers relative to where you think you are. “If I walk west from here, I’ll hit a river and then I can follow that river to town.” It’s not that complicated unless you’re hopelessly lost.

Enginerrrd 4y ago
Yeah I think that is the big conceptual failure of beginners: inability to scale their perception, and "think big" when navigating. You can still get a little lost if you happen to find a road that's not on the map on your way to the road that is or something of the sort, but usually it's pretty obvious.
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  > inability to scale their perception, and "think big" when navigating. This indeed, when navigating a city I always found that I understood 'distances'. When navigating in nature I tend to really overestimate how much ground I have covered. You are usually moving at snail speed on the typical scale of a topo map. Getting some intuition on distance covered per unit of time is in my view the missing skill to have when orientering. You need to have a good estimate of casual hike velocity and fast hike velocity to better not underestimate distances.

totetsu 4y ago

phones are great untill you drop them on a rock trying to take a photo.

andkenneth 4y ago

I'm sure that the advice from mountain rescue comes from many many instances where they have to save someone who brought no backup, paper or otherwise. Yeah, I'm sure YOU will bring a powerbank, and an extra device or a paper backup, but too many people wouldn't.

anigbrowl 4y ago

'enough charge and adequate backup devices' are very moveable feasts. I'm experienced on field trips and I still screw up or encounter unexpected power issues. If your devices become available or unusable, a map and compass are way more likely to get you home safe. Also, it's not that hard to read a map.

ghaff 4y ago
Especially in winter/wet conditions. Yes, maps can blow away or you can simply be in conditions where it's difficult to read them. But there's a lot of casualness in this thread about how "I'll always have my phone" that seems unwise for anything that's not very casual. For the vast majority of situations we're not talking GPS vs. Olympic level orienteering. We're talking about whether you should take trail A or B and whether you're headed approximately N or S.

manytree 4y ago

I’d say it’s both: GPS are great but you should be well practiced in wayfinding with a compass in case the GPS fails. I’ve never taken a GPS on long hikes anyhow seems overkill as long as you have a good topo.

serf 4y ago

>Navigating with a map and compass is a difficult skill that takes a lot of practise, no one seems to realize now-a-days that using devices has that same skill window. my father would be useless with a phone and gps app, but with the right charts and a sextant he can find his way around the sea. in other words : navigating is difficult, and the tools you choose to use, be it GPS and electronics or the sun/compass/sextant require practice regardless.

daleharvey 4y ago
Noone realises that because it is clearly not true. There is a huge difference in how hard it is to look at map and figure out where you are with a compass than it is to look and a map and figure out where you are because there is a big dot exactly where you are.

mannykannot 4y ago

I agree in general: I am someone who can and does use map and compass, but I routinely use GPS for convenience and verification (except when orienteering.) In so doing, I have noticed that my phone apps can fail to update to the relevant part of the map in areas of weak signal. Anyone relying on GPS should be familiar enough with their equipment to ensure it has the necessary maps available before departure.

mateo1 4y ago
I would like to add something to this. My Android phone refuses to use the GPS only navigation with the default Google Maps app. Even when AGPS is enabled and possible, the almanac downloaded beyond reasonable doubt and my last location known down to a meter. That's just google doing their thing. Expanding, most navigation apps in the name of preserving "user experience" will actively hide when they fail to work. They won't mention that signal is lost and instead they'll dead recon you within the confines of the road or path you were last in. GMaps will go a step further and simply guess where you just turned at a junction... which is extremely confusing when wrong and the main reason I'm no longer using Gmaps for my car. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: do not, under any circumstances, mistake your consumer smartphone with stock navigation apps as a reliable navigation device. Especially when getting lost might cost you your life.

i_am_proteus 4y ago

This for sure is an interesting anecdote, but doesn't seem to directly relate to the contents of the article, which refers to urban driving. Navigating an urban area with named streets doesn't even need a map and compass, just a map is fine, and it is something most people in developed countries did up until about two decades ago when car GPS units began to roll out.

logifail 4y ago

> Navigating with a map and compass is a difficult skill that takes a lot of practise, Scottish munros are very regularly subject to almost zero visibility where even the most advanced navigator would have difficulty. Almost none of the receipients of this advice actually want to navigate, they want to be able to follow a route for duration of their journey. A task that is very simply done with a phone if someone has been given the correct instruction. I've walked in Scotland, including in low cloud/fog/torrential rain, and would suggest that to be following a phone screen's "directions" while walking in almost zero visibility would be foolhardy in the extreme.

aembleton 4y ago
> ...to be following a phone screen's "directions" while walking in almost zero visibility would be foolhardy in the extreme. Can you expand on that? I have done this using mapy.cz and AlpineQuest dozens of times in the last ten years. The only exceptions for me has been in sub zero conditions where I want to keep my phone battery warm and on mountain tops, so I take compass bearings from the phone app and follow the bearing. I have found following anything on a phone sketchy on mountain summits in the past because you will have turned around and lost your orientation. A bearing resolves that. All other times though, I find it incredibly useful. Also, I like to use AlpineQuest to track where I have been in a low power way by recording my location once a minute - this helps me to keep a mental picture of where I am on the map should the phone die. I also have a paper map which fortunatelly I've only needed a couple of times when the temperature is too low for the phone.
- logifail 4y ago
  > Can you expand on that? I have done this using mapy.cz and AlpineQuest dozens of times in the last ten years. I've just pulled up the summit of Snowdon on mapy.cz[0] to find something we can compared with a traditional 1:25000 walking map of the same area, an extract from the OS Explorer map can be found on page 5 of this PDF[1] To my mind, the difference is very striking. If you are stuck in the outdoors in poor visibility, every feature on the map can be useful. mapy.cz gives a good overview of the summit and the routes to and from it, but compared with the OS map there is a lot of detail missing. Not least contour lines! [0] https://en.mapy.cz/zakladni?x=-4.0756102&y=53.0701102&z=17 https://en.mapy.cz/zakladni?x=-4.0756102&y=53.0701102&z=17 [1] https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/documents/resources/map-reading-made-easy.pdf https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/documents/resources/map-rea...

citrin_ru 4y ago

It should not be either a map or a phone (with GSP). One can use map when everything OK to develop/maintain the skill and look at phone when feels lost. Relying on a phone alone is especially problematic in rainy weather - capacitive touch screen doesn't really work when there are rain drops on it.