3 ms·

Yes they are, and by far not just barely. 1: People in fact do routinely successfully modify or wholly replace the ecu code in other cars. 2: And they even on

Yes they are, and by far not just barely. 1: People in fact do routinely successfully modify or wholly replace the ecu code in other cars. 2: And they even only do that for fun (tuning). Most vehicles never give people any reason to even want to mod the software since other vehicles haven't had nearly as much history of being as invasive or caprcious. They are starting tonadopt these undesirable norms lately, but that is because of Tesla leading by example and making it at all thinkable. A Toyota firmware from a few years ago had very little capacity to harm or offend or frustrate since it simply wasn't in control of very much, and didn't change or do anything different after purchase, and ultimately was at least replaceable by replacing the entire ecu if not by hacking the stock one, and also the stock one was hackable. Not officially or by design, but people do it anyway. If you thought you were conjuring up some ridiculous idea, in fact it is a very common thing, and yes Tesla is by far absolutely ridiculously worse than everyone else on this front.

josephcsible 4y ago
> 1: People in fact do routinely successfully modify or wholly replace the ecu code in other cars. Did the manufacturer let them do this, or did they have to do something equivalent of a jailbreak to do it? > Most vehicles never give people any reason to even want to mod the software since other vehicles haven't had nearly as much history of being as invasive or caprcious. They are starting tonadopt these undesirable norms lately, but that is because of Tesla leading by example and making it at all thinkable. Didn't OnStar exist before Tesla did?
- Brian_K_White 4y ago
  First and most are two different things, and on-star was guilty of far less actual abuse. On-star was more wrong in principle that in actuality. The worst thing about on-star was simply that even if you didn't pay for the service, it was still there and could both track and to a very limited extent control the vehicle under someone else's control. But in fact they never did anything much with it, and now it's not even a thing anymore, and if you wanted as an owner you could hack it out without disabling the car. on-star is on the same spectrum with tesla, at opposite ends. But if you know enough to even mention the name on-star in this context, then you know enough to know it doesn't actually compare at all, which exposes something unflattering about your argument. Tesla absolutely deserves no breaks or excuses on this or a few other topics.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    > But in fact they never did anything much with it, and now it's not even a thing anymore OnStar still exists, and to my knowledge, all of the stuff you mentioned is still possible with it. > if you wanted as an owner you could hack it out without disabling the car This is true of Teslas too. Some of their earlier cars only supported 3G, so we know from the 3G shutdown exactly what you'd lose with no connectivity at all, and it's not that much: https://electrek.co/2022/02/23/tesla-vehicles-3g-modems-are-starting-to-lose-connectivity-networks-shutting-down/ https://electrek.co/2022/02/23/tesla-vehicles-3g-modems-are-... > Without an upgraded modem, you will not be able to: > * Remotely control climate controls, locks and charge settings > * Get navigation and traffic updates, including Supercharger availability and outage information > * Stream music online using your touchscreen > * Receive remote diagnostic support from roadside assistance > * Access over-the-air software updates

josephcsible 4y ago

> 1: People in fact do routinely successfully modify or wholly replace the ecu code in other cars. Did the manufacturer let them do this, or did they have to do something equivalent of a jailbreak to do it? > Most vehicles never give people any reason to even want to mod the software since other vehicles haven't had nearly as much history of being as invasive or caprcious. They are starting tonadopt these undesirable norms lately, but that is because of Tesla leading by example and making it at all thinkable. Didn't OnStar exist before Tesla did?

Brian_K_White 4y ago
First and most are two different things, and on-star was guilty of far less actual abuse. On-star was more wrong in principle that in actuality. The worst thing about on-star was simply that even if you didn't pay for the service, it was still there and could both track and to a very limited extent control the vehicle under someone else's control. But in fact they never did anything much with it, and now it's not even a thing anymore, and if you wanted as an owner you could hack it out without disabling the car. on-star is on the same spectrum with tesla, at opposite ends. But if you know enough to even mention the name on-star in this context, then you know enough to know it doesn't actually compare at all, which exposes something unflattering about your argument. Tesla absolutely deserves no breaks or excuses on this or a few other topics.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > But in fact they never did anything much with it, and now it's not even a thing anymore OnStar still exists, and to my knowledge, all of the stuff you mentioned is still possible with it. > if you wanted as an owner you could hack it out without disabling the car This is true of Teslas too. Some of their earlier cars only supported 3G, so we know from the 3G shutdown exactly what you'd lose with no connectivity at all, and it's not that much: https://electrek.co/2022/02/23/tesla-vehicles-3g-modems-are-starting-to-lose-connectivity-networks-shutting-down/ https://electrek.co/2022/02/23/tesla-vehicles-3g-modems-are-... > Without an upgraded modem, you will not be able to: > * Remotely control climate controls, locks and charge settings > * Get navigation and traffic updates, including Supercharger availability and outage information > * Stream music online using your touchscreen > * Receive remote diagnostic support from roadside assistance > * Access over-the-air software updates